3 ms·

I can't take an IT guy in a suit seriously.

lacampbell 9y ago
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- golergka 9y ago
  You're proving the point: IT guys in suits are from 50 years ago. Of course, if you meat a real old-timer, you respect him, but if you see a 20-something who tries to emulate this style, it just looks ridiculous and out of place.
  - lacampbell 9y ago
    Then I think that reflects badly on our profession if the idea of us dressing like professionals is hard for us to take seriously. We can take lawyers, accountants and business people in suits seriously. But we're not on their level? I guess I'd rather look ridiculous and out of place than look the opposite. If this field is so un-respected, maybe I should make an exit plan anyway.
    - golergka 9y ago
      > We can take lawyers, accountants and business people in suits seriously. Do we? The overall sentiment that I feel in tech (does not mean that I share it) is that these professions owe their prestige to existing power structures and not their own merits or usefulness to society. Developers look down on bankers because it's banker's job to look presentable - and developers think of themselves as actually doing something of essense as opposed to making a show of it.
      - lacampbell 9y ago
        To be honest, I don't care much what other programmers think of my appearance. I care what they think of my code to some extent, sure, but a fellow dev thinking I overdress or look silly barely even registers on my radar. Other professionals won't appreciate me for my code. A lot of their judgment will rest on my appearance - whether that's fair or not is irrelevant.
    - ck425 9y ago
      I'd argue that: a) as an industry we have far less of a clothes == professionalism association (and that's definitely a good thing) b) if anything dressing in a suit is an indication that you've primarily worked for older, more formal companies where the technology and management practises are behind the times and you're therefor less likely to be a skilled professional and/or need help to adapt to the culture of cutting edge technology companies. Also the implication that we're 'not on their level' due to not wearing a suit is absurd.
    - TallGuyShort 9y ago
      What is it about a suit that is inherently professional, independent of social norms? There are objective ways to perform your job better, and there are cultural gestures that convey respect and dignity, and both fall under the umbrella of what we call "professionalism". A suit has been one of those gestures at some times in some cultures / industries. But to insist that it's professional independent of culture and industry is like someone coming into my home and insisting one taking their shoes off because in some places that's a sign of respect. Even if I just told them I prefer they leave their shoes on because I don't want to talk to a professional who just removed the shoes they've been working in all day. See how much it would miss the point of a respectful gesture if they insisted on a gesture that is respectful elsewhere? In many tech offices that have a casual dress code, wearing a suit when you're not meeting with a customer for whom that's the norm or something would actually be seen as a disrespectful gesture to your peers, as though you're disingenuously trying to impress someone. So what makes it professional?
      - lacampbell 9y ago
        I think I may come from a different perspective from you, or indeed many people here. I probably should have pre-faced with this first. While I code every day I also part BA. I have a lot of contact with non-technical people - I am not just in a big office with other members of my profession. Basically if I'm talking to people wearing suits/business casual, and I'm wearing a t-shirts and shorts, they will look down on me. You may decry the arbitrariness of social norms but they do exist and they do effect your interaction in a professional setting, whether people in silicon valley think they should or not. I want to be respected and I want my field to be respected. If we dress much worse than other professionals, we send the message that we're not really on their level.

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golergka 9y ago
You're proving the point: IT guys in suits are from 50 years ago. Of course, if you meat a real old-timer, you respect him, but if you see a 20-something who tries to emulate this style, it just looks ridiculous and out of place.
- lacampbell 9y ago
  Then I think that reflects badly on our profession if the idea of us dressing like professionals is hard for us to take seriously. We can take lawyers, accountants and business people in suits seriously. But we're not on their level? I guess I'd rather look ridiculous and out of place than look the opposite. If this field is so un-respected, maybe I should make an exit plan anyway.
  - golergka 9y ago
    > We can take lawyers, accountants and business people in suits seriously. Do we? The overall sentiment that I feel in tech (does not mean that I share it) is that these professions owe their prestige to existing power structures and not their own merits or usefulness to society. Developers look down on bankers because it's banker's job to look presentable - and developers think of themselves as actually doing something of essense as opposed to making a show of it.
    - lacampbell 9y ago
      To be honest, I don't care much what other programmers think of my appearance. I care what they think of my code to some extent, sure, but a fellow dev thinking I overdress or look silly barely even registers on my radar. Other professionals won't appreciate me for my code. A lot of their judgment will rest on my appearance - whether that's fair or not is irrelevant.
  - ck425 9y ago
    I'd argue that: a) as an industry we have far less of a clothes == professionalism association (and that's definitely a good thing) b) if anything dressing in a suit is an indication that you've primarily worked for older, more formal companies where the technology and management practises are behind the times and you're therefor less likely to be a skilled professional and/or need help to adapt to the culture of cutting edge technology companies. Also the implication that we're 'not on their level' due to not wearing a suit is absurd.
  - TallGuyShort 9y ago
    What is it about a suit that is inherently professional, independent of social norms? There are objective ways to perform your job better, and there are cultural gestures that convey respect and dignity, and both fall under the umbrella of what we call "professionalism". A suit has been one of those gestures at some times in some cultures / industries. But to insist that it's professional independent of culture and industry is like someone coming into my home and insisting one taking their shoes off because in some places that's a sign of respect. Even if I just told them I prefer they leave their shoes on because I don't want to talk to a professional who just removed the shoes they've been working in all day. See how much it would miss the point of a respectful gesture if they insisted on a gesture that is respectful elsewhere? In many tech offices that have a casual dress code, wearing a suit when you're not meeting with a customer for whom that's the norm or something would actually be seen as a disrespectful gesture to your peers, as though you're disingenuously trying to impress someone. So what makes it professional?
    - lacampbell 9y ago
      I think I may come from a different perspective from you, or indeed many people here. I probably should have pre-faced with this first. While I code every day I also part BA. I have a lot of contact with non-technical people - I am not just in a big office with other members of my profession. Basically if I'm talking to people wearing suits/business casual, and I'm wearing a t-shirts and shorts, they will look down on me. You may decry the arbitrariness of social norms but they do exist and they do effect your interaction in a professional setting, whether people in silicon valley think they should or not. I want to be respected and I want my field to be respected. If we dress much worse than other professionals, we send the message that we're not really on their level.