4 ms·

It depends on what somebody prefers. A. No 'cut and paste' for 2+ years and then a well-executed solution. or B.'cut and paste' that can be used now. Cumbers

by dannyr 16y ago

It depends on what somebody prefers. A. No 'cut and paste' for 2+ years and then a well-executed solution. or B.'cut and paste' that can be used now. Cumbersome but gets the job done. Personally, I'd go with B.

ericd 16y ago
One of the issues with that is that solutions that get the job done tend to be overlooked for reworks in the future.
ajg1977 16y ago
Absolutely. In another year or two Apple may provide the notification system of my dreams, but after three years I'm ready for anything that doesn't involve a button press, screen swipe, and passcode, just to checkif I have unread email.
sirn 16y ago
I'd go with A. If something does not exist, then nobody will expect it to, and apps are more likely to built with that limitation in mind. The reverse is Windows Mobile. Copy and paste does not work most of time (you can't even select webpage text in IE!), but everyone knows it's there so nobody cares to do something about it.
- statictype 16y ago
  >I'd go with A. If something does not exist, then nobody will expect it to Copy and Paste existed in smart phones long before the iPhone was ever released. It's something that existed and people expected in the iPhone from day one. (And since most of those phons had physical keypads, the UI mechanism for doing it was fairly intuitive)
  - simonw 16y ago
    I had a Nokia for several years. Two of my ongoing questions about it were: "Why can't I copy and paste?" and "What the heck is that keyboard button with a picture of a pencil on it for?" I figured it out about a week before I switched to an iPhone.
  - masklinn 16y ago
    > And since most of those phons had physical keypads, the UI mechanism for doing it was fairly intuitive Are you joking? I never even realized my old E70 could copy/paste (then again, I never quite looked for it either, but it definitely wasn't obvious), and on more recent efforts for the Pre the copy/paste implementation is an utter disgrace. And yes, it does use the physical keyboard.
    - statictype 16y ago
      shrug I knew people who didn't know about how to select text or even change the selection point until I showed it to them...
Lazlo_Nibble 16y ago
A. Being single for 2+ years and then getting into a relationship with someone you genuinely like being around pretty much all the time. B. Being with someone now who's a constantly unreliable, annoying reminder of how you could do better. Personally I'd go with A. (And yes, I think tools::relationships is a valid analogy.)
- donaq 16y ago
  I'd liken it more to A. Being jobless for 2+ years and then getting the perfect job. B. Having a job now that kinda sucks, but pays the bills. B for me. :)
  - derefr 16y ago
    And the comparison each of you made showed the difference in mindsets once again: People who like OSX/iPhones/etc. enjoy their stuff in the same way one enjoys a relationship—it's not a necessity, it's just useful and fun and beneficial. They may come to rely on it, but they won't expect anything of it that it can't do; they'll just figure out their own way of doing it that won't "hurt their relationship." People who like Linux/Android/etc., on the other hand, demand things of their hardware and software, the same way you are demanded to work if you want to earn money. In the same way one optimizes a business, they will ruthlessly hill-climb toward efficiency, taking any new feature that provides even a 1% profit-benefit, as long as it has a less-than-1% working-time cost. To put it another way, Apple users anthropomorphize Apple products, and thus have empathy/respect/admiration/etc. for them. Linux users objectify hardware and software, and do things to them (and require things from them) that would be considered sociopathic if done to people. Neither approach is "correct", mind you—software (Operating System software in particular) is a bit like a living thing, with needs and desires and the ability to cooperate with you, but it's also most definitely less "alive" than a real animal.
    - donaq 16y ago
      That's one way of looking at it, with which I disagree. I mean, which is more sociopathic: thinking you "can do better" while in a relationship, or valuing someone because she's here for you now? I can't speak for other Linux/Android users, but I don't personally think that Linux/Android is perfect or blow their competition out of the water. I've used friends' iPhones and there's loads to like, not least of which is the ability to play Bejeweled on the commute. :p But I use them and support them with my dollars because they were built on a foundation of ideals which I think should be encouraged. Hell, I bought a Freerunner (that OpenMoko phone) even though I knew it wouldn't serve me well in any capacity and that I wouldn't have time to enjoy hacking on it. I bought it as a gesture of support because I thought it was a worthy effort and I wanted it to continue. If they were still in business, I'd probably support them over the Android. To put it into perspective, that cost me about 1/5 of my monthly income at the time. Going with the relationship analogy, isn't that like dating someone ugly and annoying because she has character?
mjcohen 16y ago
The (original) Palm had well-executed cut and paste from the beginning. Of course it uses a stylus, but that also means much greater precision when selecting. Too bad that Palm stopped developing its original OS - I still enjoy my Treo, but will probably switch to the iPhone when it dies.
smackfu 16y ago
Funny that Apple went for B with notifications.

by dannyr 16y ago

ericd 16y ago

One of the issues with that is that solutions that get the job done tend to be overlooked for reworks in the future.

ajg1977 16y ago

Absolutely. In another year or two Apple may provide the notification system of my dreams, but after three years I'm ready for anything that doesn't involve a button press, screen swipe, and passcode, just to checkif I have unread email.

sirn 16y ago

I'd go with A. If something does not exist, then nobody will expect it to, and apps are more likely to built with that limitation in mind. The reverse is Windows Mobile. Copy and paste does not work most of time (you can't even select webpage text in IE!), but everyone knows it's there so nobody cares to do something about it.

statictype 16y ago
>I'd go with A. If something does not exist, then nobody will expect it to Copy and Paste existed in smart phones long before the iPhone was ever released. It's something that existed and people expected in the iPhone from day one. (And since most of those phons had physical keypads, the UI mechanism for doing it was fairly intuitive)
- simonw 16y ago
  I had a Nokia for several years. Two of my ongoing questions about it were: "Why can't I copy and paste?" and "What the heck is that keyboard button with a picture of a pencil on it for?" I figured it out about a week before I switched to an iPhone.
- masklinn 16y ago
  > And since most of those phons had physical keypads, the UI mechanism for doing it was fairly intuitive Are you joking? I never even realized my old E70 could copy/paste (then again, I never quite looked for it either, but it definitely wasn't obvious), and on more recent efforts for the Pre the copy/paste implementation is an utter disgrace. And yes, it does use the physical keyboard.
  - statictype 16y ago
    shrug I knew people who didn't know about how to select text or even change the selection point until I showed it to them...

Lazlo_Nibble 16y ago

A. Being single for 2+ years and then getting into a relationship with someone you genuinely like being around pretty much all the time. B. Being with someone now who's a constantly unreliable, annoying reminder of how you could do better. Personally I'd go with A. (And yes, I think tools::relationships is a valid analogy.)

donaq 16y ago
I'd liken it more to A. Being jobless for 2+ years and then getting the perfect job. B. Having a job now that kinda sucks, but pays the bills. B for me. :)
- derefr 16y ago
  And the comparison each of you made showed the difference in mindsets once again: People who like OSX/iPhones/etc. enjoy their stuff in the same way one enjoys a relationship—it's not a necessity, it's just useful and fun and beneficial. They may come to rely on it, but they won't expect anything of it that it can't do; they'll just figure out their own way of doing it that won't "hurt their relationship." People who like Linux/Android/etc., on the other hand, demand things of their hardware and software, the same way you are demanded to work if you want to earn money. In the same way one optimizes a business, they will ruthlessly hill-climb toward efficiency, taking any new feature that provides even a 1% profit-benefit, as long as it has a less-than-1% working-time cost. To put it another way, Apple users anthropomorphize Apple products, and thus have empathy/respect/admiration/etc. for them. Linux users objectify hardware and software, and do things to them (and require things from them) that would be considered sociopathic if done to people. Neither approach is "correct", mind you—software (Operating System software in particular) is a bit like a living thing, with needs and desires and the ability to cooperate with you, but it's also most definitely less "alive" than a real animal.
  - donaq 16y ago
    That's one way of looking at it, with which I disagree. I mean, which is more sociopathic: thinking you "can do better" while in a relationship, or valuing someone because she's here for you now? I can't speak for other Linux/Android users, but I don't personally think that Linux/Android is perfect or blow their competition out of the water. I've used friends' iPhones and there's loads to like, not least of which is the ability to play Bejeweled on the commute. :p But I use them and support them with my dollars because they were built on a foundation of ideals which I think should be encouraged. Hell, I bought a Freerunner (that OpenMoko phone) even though I knew it wouldn't serve me well in any capacity and that I wouldn't have time to enjoy hacking on it. I bought it as a gesture of support because I thought it was a worthy effort and I wanted it to continue. If they were still in business, I'd probably support them over the Android. To put it into perspective, that cost me about 1/5 of my monthly income at the time. Going with the relationship analogy, isn't that like dating someone ugly and annoying because she has character?

mjcohen 16y ago

The (original) Palm had well-executed cut and paste from the beginning. Of course it uses a stylus, but that also means much greater precision when selecting. Too bad that Palm stopped developing its original OS - I still enjoy my Treo, but will probably switch to the iPhone when it dies.

smackfu 16y ago

Funny that Apple went for B with notifications.