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I have come to the conclusion that the only way there could ever be any improvement in the way us Brits distribute our wealth (and by that I mean more equitably

I have come to the conclusion that the only way there could ever be any improvement in the way us Brits distribute our wealth (and by that I mean more equitably) is to have land reform. Nobody ever talks about this. I also think that unless some event happens that serves to dismantle (to a greater or lesser extent) the existing power structure, this will never happen.

rwmj 9y ago
The Scottish government has been very vocal about land reform (eg https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2016/mar/17/a-new-dawn-for-land-reform-in-scotland https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2016/mar/1...) and even passed an Act last year (although the most significant amendments didn't pass).
- pjc50 9y ago
  Yes, it's tiny steps but that's the only way it's ever going to get done. People are always going to claim that the tiniest bit of land reform will turn the country into Zimbabwe. I can't really see it happening in England.
  - mmjaa 9y ago
    How is England not 'like Zimbabwe' already? Its land is owned by protected minorities, is it not?
    - pjc50 9y ago
      I suppose if you squint an apple does look like an orange.
mattgibson 9y ago
> Nobody ever talks about this. I've always assumed that this is because those who think land is just another free market commodity (it isn't) don't realise there's anything to talk about, so they keep quiet. However, those that understand realise they can use land to bypass the free market and get a constant flow of free money through rent. They then routinely lie about it so they get to carry on. My hope is that new technology such as the linked map of land ownership will lower the bar to learning how land works far enough that it becomes hard to lie about it effectively. Land is a monopoly, but most people are not even aware that economists describe it as such, let alone knowing how the monopoly works. I think once that begins to change, we will see reform. More of an education issue than anything else.
- smiytyhtobf 9y ago
  "Land is a monopoly". What?
  - eevilspock 9y ago
    Read up on Geolibertarian and Georgist takes on land as private property. Or check out Are you a Real Libertarian, or a ROYAL Libertarian? http://geolib.com/essays/sullivan.dan/royallib.html http://geolib.com/essays/sullivan.dan/royallib.html
    - smiytyhtobf 9y ago
      Land redistribution is a difficult idea to sell since it means the use of force to do it. And when you think that all lands, now legal, have been taken by force, or chance at some point in the past, how do we deal it? Think about it: Even your perfectly legal little house, was taken by force or chance at some point back in history.
      - eevilspock 9y ago
        You're bolstering my point. Thank you.
  - gchadwick 9y ago
    Seems quite straight-forward. The concept of owning land is the concept of giving someone a total monopoly on the use of that land.
    - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      Hardly. Others can still fly over it. Look at it. Zone-regulate the use of it. Enforce environmental regulations on it. Pursue criminals over it. The nation can assert hegemony over it. Ownership is a limited-use social contract. There's less you can do every day.
      - 9y ago
adwhit 9y ago
Worth noting that Labour's manifesto mentions investigating a Land Value Tax as a replacement for council tax and business rates [0]. OK, unlikely to happen, but the best chance we have for reform in the near-to-medium term. [0] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-land-value-tax-manifesto-general-election-2017-jeremy-corbyn-john-mcdonnell-a7738766.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-land-va...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
seanalltogether 9y ago
Absolutely. The current system allows individuals or companies to hold onto a piece of land indefinitely with no downsides, why would you ever sell it? Property tax is the only way to level the playing field for everyone. If you want to hold land, you have to pay yearly for it based on it's value.
- koolba 9y ago
  Wait so England doesn't have any property tax for real estate?
  - seanalltogether 9y ago
    The UK has Stamp Duty (sales tax on buying a property) and Council Tax (taxes paid by occupants of a property for local services). This system discourages selling/buying property since you pay taxes on the transaction. The whole framework seems to be crafted specifically to reward those who already hold land. It's very similar to the NYC taxi medallion problem.
    - koolba 9y ago
      So only transfer tax, not holding tax? If so that sounds terrible.
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        As I understand, it's transfer tax (Stamp Duty) and holding tax (Council Tax).
vijayr 9y ago
There are some people who own insane amounts of land in the U.S too [1] I have no idea if this is good or bad, compared to the U.K [1] http://www.landreport.com/americas-100-largest-landowners/ http://www.landreport.com/americas-100-largest-landowners/

rwmj 9y ago

The Scottish government has been very vocal about land reform (eg https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2016/mar/17/a-new-dawn-for-land-reform-in-scotland https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2016/mar/1...) and even passed an Act last year (although the most significant amendments didn't pass).

pjc50 9y ago
Yes, it's tiny steps but that's the only way it's ever going to get done. People are always going to claim that the tiniest bit of land reform will turn the country into Zimbabwe. I can't really see it happening in England.
- mmjaa 9y ago
  How is England not 'like Zimbabwe' already? Its land is owned by protected minorities, is it not?
  - pjc50 9y ago
    I suppose if you squint an apple does look like an orange.

mattgibson 9y ago

> Nobody ever talks about this. I've always assumed that this is because those who think land is just another free market commodity (it isn't) don't realise there's anything to talk about, so they keep quiet. However, those that understand realise they can use land to bypass the free market and get a constant flow of free money through rent. They then routinely lie about it so they get to carry on. My hope is that new technology such as the linked map of land ownership will lower the bar to learning how land works far enough that it becomes hard to lie about it effectively. Land is a monopoly, but most people are not even aware that economists describe it as such, let alone knowing how the monopoly works. I think once that begins to change, we will see reform. More of an education issue than anything else.

smiytyhtobf 9y ago
"Land is a monopoly". What?
- eevilspock 9y ago
  Read up on Geolibertarian and Georgist takes on land as private property. Or check out Are you a Real Libertarian, or a ROYAL Libertarian? http://geolib.com/essays/sullivan.dan/royallib.html http://geolib.com/essays/sullivan.dan/royallib.html
  - smiytyhtobf 9y ago
    Land redistribution is a difficult idea to sell since it means the use of force to do it. And when you think that all lands, now legal, have been taken by force, or chance at some point in the past, how do we deal it? Think about it: Even your perfectly legal little house, was taken by force or chance at some point back in history.
    - eevilspock 9y ago
      You're bolstering my point. Thank you.
- gchadwick 9y ago
  Seems quite straight-forward. The concept of owning land is the concept of giving someone a total monopoly on the use of that land.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    Hardly. Others can still fly over it. Look at it. Zone-regulate the use of it. Enforce environmental regulations on it. Pursue criminals over it. The nation can assert hegemony over it. Ownership is a limited-use social contract. There's less you can do every day.
    - 9y ago

adwhit 9y ago

Worth noting that Labour's manifesto mentions investigating a Land Value Tax as a replacement for council tax and business rates [0]. OK, unlikely to happen, but the best chance we have for reform in the near-to-medium term. [0] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-land-value-tax-manifesto-general-election-2017-jeremy-corbyn-john-mcdonnell-a7738766.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-land-va...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

seanalltogether 9y ago

Absolutely. The current system allows individuals or companies to hold onto a piece of land indefinitely with no downsides, why would you ever sell it? Property tax is the only way to level the playing field for everyone. If you want to hold land, you have to pay yearly for it based on it's value.

koolba 9y ago
Wait so England doesn't have any property tax for real estate?
- seanalltogether 9y ago
  The UK has Stamp Duty (sales tax on buying a property) and Council Tax (taxes paid by occupants of a property for local services). This system discourages selling/buying property since you pay taxes on the transaction. The whole framework seems to be crafted specifically to reward those who already hold land. It's very similar to the NYC taxi medallion problem.
  - koolba 9y ago
    So only transfer tax, not holding tax? If so that sounds terrible.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      As I understand, it's transfer tax (Stamp Duty) and holding tax (Council Tax).

vijayr 9y ago

There are some people who own insane amounts of land in the U.S too [1] I have no idea if this is good or bad, compared to the U.K [1] http://www.landreport.com/americas-100-largest-landowners/ http://www.landreport.com/americas-100-largest-landowners/