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revolves around being a fan of a product (in his case Apple products) How did you pull that from this article? He basically says, "I like things that are full

by ynniv 16y ago

revolves around being a fan of a product (in his case Apple products) How did you pull that from this article? He basically says, "I like things that are fully-baked," not, "I like Apple products." I have been a "Mac Fanboy" for about 15 years, and it has always been about execution. I have no loyalty to Apple, but insomuch as they make better products than anyone else, I will unabashedly say that the competition is crap. If another company stepped up and made better products, I would start using those (and competition is great for the consumer). Which is basically what you just said, except that you (as many people do) treat Apple as somehow special. I don't fully understand it, but I think that Jobs' often smug attitude turns people off to the entire company and their offerings. They see Apple as elitist-in-a-bad-way, and even if they are popular now they are somehow a fad. Which is fine, but in that case it would be more correct to say "I dislike elitist CEOs," than "(HP|Dell|Compaq)/(Windows|Linux)/(Android|Wince) is just as good as Mac/MacOS/iPhone." Because really, they're not and never have been (software compatibility complicates the Windows/MacOS comparison). Cheaper maybe, but never just as good. (You can often spot the weaker competition by their extensive "feature" lists.)

kenjackson 16y ago
Really, you're asking me how I conclude that Gruber is an Apple fan? And if you've been a "Mac Fanboy" for the past 15 years, you haven't been a fan of quality. Until a couple of revs into OSX the Mac OS had been garbage. Mac OS Classic became a dog (it was great in '84). If in '84 to the mid-90s you were an Apple/Amiga user. And then switched to Windows. And then switched back to Apple around 2002 then you may have a claim. If you didn't get the iPhone until the 3G came out, that's a good sign. If you never bought into the PowerPC being WAY faster than the x86 processors that's a good sign. But in my experience, Apple "fans" are surprisingly not all that discerning when it comes to Apple products. And let me be clear... the iPad is the best tablet on the market. The iPhone will be the best phone on the market again, starting next month (I give the nod the Evo right now). Altough I'll take Win7 as best desktop OS, and Google has the best web browser. It's about looking objectively at each solution and technology. Not these weird claims that no one else does anything of merit, but Apple. The bozo bit gets set right when you say that, because there are several obvious examples of other companies doing good work.
- ynniv 16y ago
  I wasn't happy with MacOS from 8-ish to pre-X, but what was the alternative? I tried liking Solaris and IRIX (didn't ever use NeXT), but there was just nothing out there. Win 95b was a brief glimpse into a future where Windows didn't suck, but they promptly sat on their laurels with 98 and then slapped their userbase around with ME. I tried BeOS a few times, but it never really had any software and the Web wasn't big enough at the time for a lack of software to be okay. I installed Rhapsody when it came out, and then tried to run OSX Developer Preview for a few months before I had to admit that it still wasn't quite baked. Now I couldn't be happier, but I still occasionally try desktop linux and other mobile phones. I won't say that Apple's products are perfect - the pinnacle of what can be done - just currently the best.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    You could have used NT. I was using NT 4.0 and it was pretty darn good. It killed, and I mean killed MacOS. I mean, the delta was way larger than probably the delta between even Vista and OSX. It was really big. The fact that you stayed on MacOS I think says enough.
    - ynniv 16y ago
      The fact that you stayed on MacOS I think says enough. Wow, thats cold... I'm the zealot? There is some personal inertia in switching desktop platforms...
      - kenjackson 16y ago
        Fair enough. Although I would have stated that upfront (personal inertia). I was on the Amiga after it was no longer technologically the best platform. But I'd fully acknowledge that it was running on fumes at that point.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - ynniv 16y ago

by ynniv 16y ago

kenjackson 16y ago

Really, you're asking me how I conclude that Gruber is an Apple fan? And if you've been a "Mac Fanboy" for the past 15 years, you haven't been a fan of quality. Until a couple of revs into OSX the Mac OS had been garbage. Mac OS Classic became a dog (it was great in '84). If in '84 to the mid-90s you were an Apple/Amiga user. And then switched to Windows. And then switched back to Apple around 2002 then you may have a claim. If you didn't get the iPhone until the 3G came out, that's a good sign. If you never bought into the PowerPC being WAY faster than the x86 processors that's a good sign. But in my experience, Apple "fans" are surprisingly not all that discerning when it comes to Apple products. And let me be clear... the iPad is the best tablet on the market. The iPhone will be the best phone on the market again, starting next month (I give the nod the Evo right now). Altough I'll take Win7 as best desktop OS, and Google has the best web browser. It's about looking objectively at each solution and technology. Not these weird claims that no one else does anything of merit, but Apple. The bozo bit gets set right when you say that, because there are several obvious examples of other companies doing good work.

ynniv 16y ago
I wasn't happy with MacOS from 8-ish to pre-X, but what was the alternative? I tried liking Solaris and IRIX (didn't ever use NeXT), but there was just nothing out there. Win 95b was a brief glimpse into a future where Windows didn't suck, but they promptly sat on their laurels with 98 and then slapped their userbase around with ME. I tried BeOS a few times, but it never really had any software and the Web wasn't big enough at the time for a lack of software to be okay. I installed Rhapsody when it came out, and then tried to run OSX Developer Preview for a few months before I had to admit that it still wasn't quite baked. Now I couldn't be happier, but I still occasionally try desktop linux and other mobile phones. I won't say that Apple's products are perfect - the pinnacle of what can be done - just currently the best.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  You could have used NT. I was using NT 4.0 and it was pretty darn good. It killed, and I mean killed MacOS. I mean, the delta was way larger than probably the delta between even Vista and OSX. It was really big. The fact that you stayed on MacOS I think says enough.
  - ynniv 16y ago
    The fact that you stayed on MacOS I think says enough. Wow, thats cold... I'm the zealot? There is some personal inertia in switching desktop platforms...
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      Fair enough. Although I would have stated that upfront (personal inertia). I was on the Amiga after it was no longer technologically the best platform. But I'd fully acknowledge that it was running on fumes at that point.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - ynniv 16y ago