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"I wish there were more definite sources detailing what the actual conflict is about. " The death of Hamza Khateeb[1] comes to mind. Political and civil unrest

"I wish there were more definite sources detailing what the actual conflict is about. " The death of Hamza Khateeb[1] comes to mind. Political and civil unrest was already underway, but the open violence against civilians including children sent Syria down a path. The government butchered that child among others caught for demonstrations or showing dissent. "The attitude of the government against the people of Syria has not changed" Laughable commentary in the face of regular chemical weapons attacks by the regime and it's paramilitary forces/Hezbollah allies. This is a government that besieges and pummels civilian areas with indiscriminate weapons until they accept forced displacement under the 'reconciliation' campaign. To say it's attitude has not changed since before the protests is absurd. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Hamza_Ali_Al-Khateeb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Hamza_Ali_Al-Khateeb

candiodari 9y ago
> The death of Hamza Khateeb Ok, but how do you go from that to islamic state ? And frankly, how does a protest like that get organised in the first place by the locals ? > regular chemical weapons attacks by the regime Maybe I'm misinformed, but I seem to only recall that the government was accused of doing this once. This is neither regular, nor was it the cause of the conflict.
- RandVal30141 9y ago
  "accuse" Not accused, found culpable by OPCW[1] along with ISIS. The chlorine attacks have been on-going, including the siege of Aleppo, on Hama and north Homs, and in the Damascus area. Method of delivery has been air dropped[2] or IRAM type. " And frankly, how does a protest like that get organised in the first place by the locals" I'm hoping this is not a joke. Local coordination committees[3] have long been involved in organizing demonstrations and media exposure. People voted on the weekly theme[4] for Friday protests even. When you see logos of Syrian media on CNN and other outlets it is often bearing the logos of these groups. Yes, locals and organize protests among themselves and others in their nation. [1] https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-executive-council-adopts-decision-regarding-the-opcw-united-nations-joint-investigative-mechanism-reports-about-chemical-weapons-use-in-the-syrian-arab-republic/ https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-executive-council-ado... [2] https://youtu.be/PiDntC_E0SY https://youtu.be/PiDntC_E0SY [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Coordination_Committees_of_Syria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Coordination_Committees_... [4] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/8641167/Syria-largest-protests-against-President-Bashar-al-Assad-to-date-as-thousands-flood-the-streets.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/8...
  - ghvknvgvh 9y ago
    You have an agenda dude.
    - RandVal30141 9y ago
      I helped disseminate numerous live feeds of demonstrations, ones people flippantly suggest locals were incapable of organizing, like this one from Houla Syria[1]. Months later a massacre[2] was committed there by government forces. Yea, I have an agenda. [1] http://bambuser.com/v/2394719 http://bambuser.com/v/2394719 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houla_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houla_massacre
- matt4077 9y ago
  Islamic state really doesn't have much to do with the conflict, except that there was suddenly a lot of territory in eastern Syria that the Syrian state could no longer defend, i. e. a power vacuum. Northern Iraq was similarly weak, and there was a lot of frustration against the Iraqi government, plus many unemployed former members of Saddam Hussein's military with some experience. So they thought "fuck it, lets start our own country. With blackflags and dead hookers". A bit like these sovereign citizens, but with better social media.
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  >Ok, but how do you go from that to islamic state ? Through two years of civil war, causing unrest, instability, and dissatisfaction with both sides of the conflict. Add in the fighters who had been in the same situation for the past decade in neighboring Iraq, and you end up with a large group of armed people that want nothing to do with Russia or the US.
- kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
  > Ok, but how do you go from that to islamic state ? How did Trump win the election?
  - gscott 9y ago
    Collusion of the DNC and Hillary campaign to hurt Sanders, Hillary's not ever turning over her work emails when she was done at the State department, Clinton's universal college plan which would bankrupt the United States... and it goes on and on.
    - pjc50 9y ago
      Nobody seems to care what Trump does with his emails: https://thenextweb.com/politics/2017/01/26/trump-staffers-insecure-email-gmail/ https://thenextweb.com/politics/2017/01/26/trump-staffers-in... More generally, he's been even more disastrous than people campaigning against him expected, up to the point of letting Russian intelligence wander around the Oval Office and take pictures.
mpfundstein 9y ago
Why would the Syrian government torture and mutilate a 13-year-old boy and then return the body/proof to the parents? Same with the current gas-bombs. What is the rationale behind this besides being pure evil? Assad made great progress in Syria and is pushing back ISIS and Al-Nusra. There was no strategical need for dropping gas but still, he apparently did... why would he? Doesn't make sense to me...
- adsfqwop 9y ago
  It doesn't make any sense, unless you realize that the deep state wants to destabilize Syria and dethrone Assad by force. Then suddenly the narrative we're being offered starts making more sense. And I stress the word narrative, as in "story".
  - RandVal30141 9y ago
    You sound insane. "destabilize Syria" The regime did a fine job of that. No need for some construct behind the scenes where all blame can be assigned. "the narrative" Yes amazing how people on the ground in Syria have these words to say. Shame people spent so many years denigrating them as some narrative made up by George Soros.
    - adsfqwop 9y ago
      Sure, burying your head in the sand is a strategy too. Good for you. Which people on the ground? You sound like you're getting your talking points from CNN. How about a reporter who has personally visited Syria and Aleppo herself? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueyWGyddepw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueyWGyddepw You do not seem to be aware that there are terrorists operating in Syria that are funded by the west. Let's just start with that.
      - RandVal30141 9y ago
        "Which people on the ground?" Syrians from Homs, Hama, Aleppo, Deir ez Zor, Daraya :(, and numerous other locations. "there are terrorists operating in Syria." Yes, terrorists like the Assad regime and it's foreign allies like Hezbollah. You can thank Ru MoD for providing Hezbollah with heavy weapons like tanks, btw.
dang 9y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14408068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14408068 and marked it off-topic.

candiodari 9y ago

> The death of Hamza Khateeb Ok, but how do you go from that to islamic state ? And frankly, how does a protest like that get organised in the first place by the locals ? > regular chemical weapons attacks by the regime Maybe I'm misinformed, but I seem to only recall that the government was accused of doing this once. This is neither regular, nor was it the cause of the conflict.

RandVal30141 9y ago
"accuse" Not accused, found culpable by OPCW[1] along with ISIS. The chlorine attacks have been on-going, including the siege of Aleppo, on Hama and north Homs, and in the Damascus area. Method of delivery has been air dropped[2] or IRAM type. " And frankly, how does a protest like that get organised in the first place by the locals" I'm hoping this is not a joke. Local coordination committees[3] have long been involved in organizing demonstrations and media exposure. People voted on the weekly theme[4] for Friday protests even. When you see logos of Syrian media on CNN and other outlets it is often bearing the logos of these groups. Yes, locals and organize protests among themselves and others in their nation. [1] https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-executive-council-adopts-decision-regarding-the-opcw-united-nations-joint-investigative-mechanism-reports-about-chemical-weapons-use-in-the-syrian-arab-republic/ https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-executive-council-ado... [2] https://youtu.be/PiDntC_E0SY https://youtu.be/PiDntC_E0SY [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Coordination_Committees_of_Syria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Coordination_Committees_... [4] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/8641167/Syria-largest-protests-against-President-Bashar-al-Assad-to-date-as-thousands-flood-the-streets.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/8...
- ghvknvgvh 9y ago
  You have an agenda dude.
  - RandVal30141 9y ago
    I helped disseminate numerous live feeds of demonstrations, ones people flippantly suggest locals were incapable of organizing, like this one from Houla Syria[1]. Months later a massacre[2] was committed there by government forces. Yea, I have an agenda. [1] http://bambuser.com/v/2394719 http://bambuser.com/v/2394719 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houla_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houla_massacre
matt4077 9y ago
Islamic state really doesn't have much to do with the conflict, except that there was suddenly a lot of territory in eastern Syria that the Syrian state could no longer defend, i. e. a power vacuum. Northern Iraq was similarly weak, and there was a lot of frustration against the Iraqi government, plus many unemployed former members of Saddam Hussein's military with some experience. So they thought "fuck it, lets start our own country. With blackflags and dead hookers". A bit like these sovereign citizens, but with better social media.
boomboomsubban 9y ago
>Ok, but how do you go from that to islamic state ? Through two years of civil war, causing unrest, instability, and dissatisfaction with both sides of the conflict. Add in the fighters who had been in the same situation for the past decade in neighboring Iraq, and you end up with a large group of armed people that want nothing to do with Russia or the US.
kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
> Ok, but how do you go from that to islamic state ? How did Trump win the election?
- gscott 9y ago
  Collusion of the DNC and Hillary campaign to hurt Sanders, Hillary's not ever turning over her work emails when she was done at the State department, Clinton's universal college plan which would bankrupt the United States... and it goes on and on.
  - pjc50 9y ago
    Nobody seems to care what Trump does with his emails: https://thenextweb.com/politics/2017/01/26/trump-staffers-insecure-email-gmail/ https://thenextweb.com/politics/2017/01/26/trump-staffers-in... More generally, he's been even more disastrous than people campaigning against him expected, up to the point of letting Russian intelligence wander around the Oval Office and take pictures.

mpfundstein 9y ago

Why would the Syrian government torture and mutilate a 13-year-old boy and then return the body/proof to the parents? Same with the current gas-bombs. What is the rationale behind this besides being pure evil? Assad made great progress in Syria and is pushing back ISIS and Al-Nusra. There was no strategical need for dropping gas but still, he apparently did... why would he? Doesn't make sense to me...

adsfqwop 9y ago
It doesn't make any sense, unless you realize that the deep state wants to destabilize Syria and dethrone Assad by force. Then suddenly the narrative we're being offered starts making more sense. And I stress the word narrative, as in "story".
- RandVal30141 9y ago
  You sound insane. "destabilize Syria" The regime did a fine job of that. No need for some construct behind the scenes where all blame can be assigned. "the narrative" Yes amazing how people on the ground in Syria have these words to say. Shame people spent so many years denigrating them as some narrative made up by George Soros.
  - adsfqwop 9y ago
    Sure, burying your head in the sand is a strategy too. Good for you. Which people on the ground? You sound like you're getting your talking points from CNN. How about a reporter who has personally visited Syria and Aleppo herself? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueyWGyddepw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueyWGyddepw You do not seem to be aware that there are terrorists operating in Syria that are funded by the west. Let's just start with that.
    - RandVal30141 9y ago
      "Which people on the ground?" Syrians from Homs, Hama, Aleppo, Deir ez Zor, Daraya :(, and numerous other locations. "there are terrorists operating in Syria." Yes, terrorists like the Assad regime and it's foreign allies like Hezbollah. You can thank Ru MoD for providing Hezbollah with heavy weapons like tanks, btw.

dang 9y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14408068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14408068 and marked it off-topic.