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England is old, very old. For example the City of London existed before the crown of England, never mind the union we know as UK... https://www.youtube.com/wa

England is old, very old. For example the City of London existed before the crown of England, never mind the union we know as UK... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrObZ_HZZUc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrObZ_HZZUc

jwdunne 9y ago
Here's a few more interesting facts: - before the Crown, there were several crowns. England was composed of a handful of Anglo-Saxon petty kingdoms - before that, it had an emperor. The Roman emperor. - parts were ruled by the Danish (the Danelaw) and parts were ruled by the Saxons - with regards to the UK, the political union is much younger than the union of crowns. The personal union was a Scottish king inheriting the English throne. The political union was the English parliament strong arming the Scottish. - there was once a kingdom of Ireland until England had its way.
- ptaipale 9y ago
  And there was also a Kingdom of Dublin, ruled by the Danes. It lasted from 853 AD to 1171 when the Norman conquest finished it off -- in fact, this is a longer time than what the Acts of Union of England and Scotland have lasted so far.
- dreen 9y ago
  The Saxons also came from area of modern Denmark, to fill the void left by collapsed Roman Britain, which was occupied by Celtic Britons (and Romans from other parts of the Empire)
  - jacobush 9y ago
    And I'd dare say, even some "Roman Celts"! The roman influence was long and strong.
    - dghf 9y ago
      There is a sixth century memorial stone in North Wales that uses consular dating: "The stone of ... son of Avitorius. In the time of Justinus the Consul." (Justinus was consul in Constantinople in 540 AD.) Source: http://www.walesher1974.org/her/groups/GAT/media/GAT_Reports/GATreport_350_compressed.pdf http://www.walesher1974.org/her/groups/GAT/media/GAT_Reports..., p. 121.
  - flurdy 9y ago
    And the Normans was originally Danes, Icelanders and Norwegians that settled and integrated into Normandy, France, before crossing the channel...
- dghf 9y ago
  > there was once a kingdom of Ireland until England had its way There was, but its king was the King of England (and later of Great Britain), and its parliament was subjugated to the parliament at Westminster, which could veto its acts and legislate directly for Ireland. It saw a brief period of autonomy towards the end of the eighteenth century, when its relationship with Britain became more akin to that between England and Scotland from the Union of the Crowns to the Act of Union; but after the United Irishmen revolt, Britain convinced the Parliament of Ireland, at least partly through bribery of its members, to abolish itself, and Ireland was formally absorbed into the UK. Before the Kingdom of Ireland was the Lordship of Ireland, which was much the same, but with the King of England as Lord (rather than King) of Ireland, a title granted in 1154 by the first and only English pope, Adrian IV. (Henry VIII had himself declared King of Ireland after his breach with Rome, to quash the belief that the Pope was Ireland's ultimate sovereign.) Before the Lordship there was a whole mass of kingdoms and sub-kingdoms (including the Kingdom of Dublin mentioned by ptaipale in a sibling to this comment), sometimes united under a High King, the most famous possibly being Brian Boru.
  - jwdunne 9y ago
    For some odd reason, I was sure there was an independent kingdom but clearly not. I think I've played too much Ck2 to remember my real history now. Thanks for that :)
    - dghf 9y ago
      Well, like I said, there was the High Kingship, but opinion seems to be divided on whether it represented a genuine political union, a confederation, a series of occasional and temporary alliances, a courtesy title for a "first among equals", a claim of supremacy not necessarily accepted by other Irish kings, or all of the above at different times. And at least some of its incumbents, especially the earlier ones, were entirely fictional.
  - Anthony-G 9y ago
    That’s an impressively comprehensive, concise and well-informed history of Ireland with regard to its various kingdoms. I only learned some of this history in the past two years and while I had learned that Henry II had received a papal mandate to conquer Ireland, I hadn’t realised until now that Adrian IV was actually English.
- olau 9y ago
  If you're into historical fiction, I can recommend the Saxon Stories by Bernard Cornwell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saxon_Stories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saxon_Stories I don't know how historically accurate they are, but they're relatively fast paced, fun to read and take place around the time where there were several kingdoms.
thinkling 9y ago
...and this leads to some interesting theories. If you want a deep dive into Conspiracy Theory Territory, google for "Crown Temple" and read about how the "Crown Temple" controls the (regular) Crown and how it secretly owns the United States of America. e.g.: http://truedemocracy.net/hj31/20.html http://truedemocracy.net/hj31/20.html
- myopicgoat 9y ago
  This is hilarious, well worth a read.
  - frikk 9y ago
    Seems that a lot hinges on the use of 'state' in the US Constitution, which feels like a stretch.
panglott 9y ago
This comment remind me of Michael Lewis's profile of Greece during the 2008 financial crisis... http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010 http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-... 'The easiest way to cheat on one’s taxes was to insist on being paid in cash, and fail to provide a receipt for services. The easiest way to launder cash was to buy real estate. Conveniently for the black market—and alone among European countries—Greece has no working national land registry. “You have to know where the guy bought the land—the address—to trace it back to him,” says the collector. “And even then it’s all handwritten and hard to decipher.” ...Relationships with the rich and famous were essential in Vatopaidi’s pursuit of government grants and reparations for sackings, but also for the third prong of its new management’s strategy: real estate. By far the smartest thing Father Ephraim had done was go rummaging around in an old tower where they kept the Byzantine manuscripts, untouched for decades. Over the centuries Byzantine emperors and other rulers had deeded to Vatopaidi various tracts of land, mainly in modern-day Greece and Turkey. In the years before Ephraim arrived, the Greek government had clawed back much of this property, but there remained a title, bestowed in the 14th century by Emperor John V Palaiologos, to a lake in northern Greece. By the time Ephraim discovered the deed to the lake in Vatopaidi’s vaults, it had been designated a nature preserve by the Greek government. Then, in 1998, suddenly it wasn’t: someone had allowed the designation to lapse. Shortly thereafter, the monks were granted full title to the lake.' ...which they exchanged for government land at inflated value and then got into the bond market.

jwdunne 9y ago

Here's a few more interesting facts: - before the Crown, there were several crowns. England was composed of a handful of Anglo-Saxon petty kingdoms - before that, it had an emperor. The Roman emperor. - parts were ruled by the Danish (the Danelaw) and parts were ruled by the Saxons - with regards to the UK, the political union is much younger than the union of crowns. The personal union was a Scottish king inheriting the English throne. The political union was the English parliament strong arming the Scottish. - there was once a kingdom of Ireland until England had its way.

ptaipale 9y ago
And there was also a Kingdom of Dublin, ruled by the Danes. It lasted from 853 AD to 1171 when the Norman conquest finished it off -- in fact, this is a longer time than what the Acts of Union of England and Scotland have lasted so far.
dreen 9y ago
The Saxons also came from area of modern Denmark, to fill the void left by collapsed Roman Britain, which was occupied by Celtic Britons (and Romans from other parts of the Empire)
- jacobush 9y ago
  And I'd dare say, even some "Roman Celts"! The roman influence was long and strong.
  - dghf 9y ago
    There is a sixth century memorial stone in North Wales that uses consular dating: "The stone of ... son of Avitorius. In the time of Justinus the Consul." (Justinus was consul in Constantinople in 540 AD.) Source: http://www.walesher1974.org/her/groups/GAT/media/GAT_Reports/GATreport_350_compressed.pdf http://www.walesher1974.org/her/groups/GAT/media/GAT_Reports..., p. 121.
- flurdy 9y ago
  And the Normans was originally Danes, Icelanders and Norwegians that settled and integrated into Normandy, France, before crossing the channel...
dghf 9y ago
> there was once a kingdom of Ireland until England had its way There was, but its king was the King of England (and later of Great Britain), and its parliament was subjugated to the parliament at Westminster, which could veto its acts and legislate directly for Ireland. It saw a brief period of autonomy towards the end of the eighteenth century, when its relationship with Britain became more akin to that between England and Scotland from the Union of the Crowns to the Act of Union; but after the United Irishmen revolt, Britain convinced the Parliament of Ireland, at least partly through bribery of its members, to abolish itself, and Ireland was formally absorbed into the UK. Before the Kingdom of Ireland was the Lordship of Ireland, which was much the same, but with the King of England as Lord (rather than King) of Ireland, a title granted in 1154 by the first and only English pope, Adrian IV. (Henry VIII had himself declared King of Ireland after his breach with Rome, to quash the belief that the Pope was Ireland's ultimate sovereign.) Before the Lordship there was a whole mass of kingdoms and sub-kingdoms (including the Kingdom of Dublin mentioned by ptaipale in a sibling to this comment), sometimes united under a High King, the most famous possibly being Brian Boru.
- jwdunne 9y ago
  For some odd reason, I was sure there was an independent kingdom but clearly not. I think I've played too much Ck2 to remember my real history now. Thanks for that :)
  - dghf 9y ago
    Well, like I said, there was the High Kingship, but opinion seems to be divided on whether it represented a genuine political union, a confederation, a series of occasional and temporary alliances, a courtesy title for a "first among equals", a claim of supremacy not necessarily accepted by other Irish kings, or all of the above at different times. And at least some of its incumbents, especially the earlier ones, were entirely fictional.
- Anthony-G 9y ago
  That’s an impressively comprehensive, concise and well-informed history of Ireland with regard to its various kingdoms. I only learned some of this history in the past two years and while I had learned that Henry II had received a papal mandate to conquer Ireland, I hadn’t realised until now that Adrian IV was actually English.
olau 9y ago
If you're into historical fiction, I can recommend the Saxon Stories by Bernard Cornwell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saxon_Stories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saxon_Stories I don't know how historically accurate they are, but they're relatively fast paced, fun to read and take place around the time where there were several kingdoms.

thinkling 9y ago

...and this leads to some interesting theories. If you want a deep dive into Conspiracy Theory Territory, google for "Crown Temple" and read about how the "Crown Temple" controls the (regular) Crown and how it secretly owns the United States of America. e.g.: http://truedemocracy.net/hj31/20.html http://truedemocracy.net/hj31/20.html

myopicgoat 9y ago
This is hilarious, well worth a read.
- frikk 9y ago
  Seems that a lot hinges on the use of 'state' in the US Constitution, which feels like a stretch.

panglott 9y ago

This comment remind me of Michael Lewis's profile of Greece during the 2008 financial crisis... http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010 http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-... 'The easiest way to cheat on one’s taxes was to insist on being paid in cash, and fail to provide a receipt for services. The easiest way to launder cash was to buy real estate. Conveniently for the black market—and alone among European countries—Greece has no working national land registry. “You have to know where the guy bought the land—the address—to trace it back to him,” says the collector. “And even then it’s all handwritten and hard to decipher.” ...Relationships with the rich and famous were essential in Vatopaidi’s pursuit of government grants and reparations for sackings, but also for the third prong of its new management’s strategy: real estate. By far the smartest thing Father Ephraim had done was go rummaging around in an old tower where they kept the Byzantine manuscripts, untouched for decades. Over the centuries Byzantine emperors and other rulers had deeded to Vatopaidi various tracts of land, mainly in modern-day Greece and Turkey. In the years before Ephraim arrived, the Greek government had clawed back much of this property, but there remained a title, bestowed in the 14th century by Emperor John V Palaiologos, to a lake in northern Greece. By the time Ephraim discovered the deed to the lake in Vatopaidi’s vaults, it had been designated a nature preserve by the Greek government. Then, in 1998, suddenly it wasn’t: someone had allowed the designation to lapse. Shortly thereafter, the monks were granted full title to the lake.' ...which they exchanged for government land at inflated value and then got into the bond market.