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I think it's great that you are so worried about the well-being of people accused of harassment. I only wish you'd express and weigh equally a concern for the

by jlebar 9y ago

I think it's great that you are so worried about the well-being of people accused of harassment. I only wish you'd express and weigh equally a concern for the well-being of women and minorities in tech, who are disproportionately the victims of harassment.

metaphorm 9y ago
my interest isn't narrowly constrained to people accused of harassment. my interest is in setting standards for ethics, which I find to be absolutely essential at this cultural moment because our standards of discourse and ethics seems to be breaking down.
Kalium 9y ago
I think it's great that you are so worried about the well-being of people who are disproportionately the victims of harassment. I only wish you'd express and weigh equally a concern for the well-being of those who might be anonymously accused of harassment without evidence or opportunity to defend themselves. ----- Does it sound better turned around? If not, why not? What are you attempting to communicate, and how might you state it more clearly?
- jlebar 9y ago
  If people were being named and shamed without being given an opportunity to defend themselves, I would be concerned about that. To my knowledge, as I have said a dozen times in this thread, that is not happening. Nobody here can point to a single instance of that happening as a result of this email list. All anyone has offered is an entirely hypothetical slippery-slope potential. We know that people are being harassed in our workplaces all the time. That's a real problem, which is why I am concerned about it. You keep equating these two issues -- harassment and false accusations -- like they're both big problems that we need to worry about equally. I have zero evidence that this is true, and tons of evidence that it's not.
  - Kalium 9y ago
    You may wish to consider the possibility that I do not "keep equating" any two issues. Indeed, I have not engaged with any other person at any point in this entire discussion. But no matter. Thank you for clarifying your perspective. I understand, appreciate, and empathize with it. After all, here before us is a clear, real, known problem that hurts the vulnerable and weak among us. Why would we worry about what else could go wrong, when we know for certain that women and minorities are being hurt?

by jlebar 9y ago

metaphorm 9y ago

my interest isn't narrowly constrained to people accused of harassment. my interest is in setting standards for ethics, which I find to be absolutely essential at this cultural moment because our standards of discourse and ethics seems to be breaking down.

Kalium 9y ago

I think it's great that you are so worried about the well-being of people who are disproportionately the victims of harassment. I only wish you'd express and weigh equally a concern for the well-being of those who might be anonymously accused of harassment without evidence or opportunity to defend themselves. ----- Does it sound better turned around? If not, why not? What are you attempting to communicate, and how might you state it more clearly?

jlebar 9y ago
If people were being named and shamed without being given an opportunity to defend themselves, I would be concerned about that. To my knowledge, as I have said a dozen times in this thread, that is not happening. Nobody here can point to a single instance of that happening as a result of this email list. All anyone has offered is an entirely hypothetical slippery-slope potential. We know that people are being harassed in our workplaces all the time. That's a real problem, which is why I am concerned about it. You keep equating these two issues -- harassment and false accusations -- like they're both big problems that we need to worry about equally. I have zero evidence that this is true, and tons of evidence that it's not.
- Kalium 9y ago
  You may wish to consider the possibility that I do not "keep equating" any two issues. Indeed, I have not engaged with any other person at any point in this entire discussion. But no matter. Thank you for clarifying your perspective. I understand, appreciate, and empathize with it. After all, here before us is a clear, real, known problem that hurts the vulnerable and weak among us. Why would we worry about what else could go wrong, when we know for certain that women and minorities are being hurt?