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Bitcoins are different than tulips or homes with subprime mortgages or dot com companies in 1999 in that they are completely useless. They have no value whatso
by Ologn 9y ago
Bitcoins are different than tulips or homes with subprime mortgages or dot com companies in 1999 in that they are completely useless. They have no value whatsoever. Usually bubbles are built on something real. Even Ponzi's international reply coupons had some underlying value. Bitcoins are completely worthless.
There's a lot of ferment for them, but then there were Casey Serin's making big money in 2007 on subprime loans, or Pets.com superbowl commercials, or Dutch tulip bulbs. It always feels heady during the times people are publishing books with titles like "Dow 36000". It's almost always right before the crash.
As Bitcoins are worthless, people go casting about for something else which they consider worthless. They come up with the dollar bill, and say the Bitcoin is just like the dollar bill, but electronic and untied to government.
This is pretty silly for a whole host of reasons. It would take too long to go into fully, and pointless to those who've already drunk the kool-aid. The USA has the world's largest GNI by some measures, it holds thousands of tons gold in Fort Knox and other places. In 1971 the dollar was an abstraction of its gold reserves, since then its been an abstraction of that abstraction, something akin to class B non-voting shares of a large stock. If it were possible for states to run the printing presses and create value, you'd wonder why that innovation was discovered in the past century. Any how, the Bitcoin scam claimed a magic wand could create value, so unsurprisingly other scams arose - Ethereum, Ripple, NEM etc. all currently have billion dollar market caps.
It's illustrative of how these cons work. I mean I don't know how much more blatantly it can be spelled out to you its a scam - Bitcoin was not created by a Ponzi, but by some criminal who has kept their identity completely secret. If this doesn't wake you up to the con, I don't know what will. Except its inevitable crash to becoming worthless, just like "Flooz" and "Beanz" did 17 years ago. And those were electronic currencies created by VC backed firms.
- paulpauper 9y agoBitcoin provides security, a large and liquid market, price transparency, and utility. Those alone have value .Flooz and Beenz had none of those. Foreign millionaires are buying bitcoin because it's safer , in many respects, than storing millions of dollars in a bank. Buying bitcoin is another form of diversification. It's not going away, sorry.
- sgt101 9y agoIt's not safer than dollars in a bank, it's safer than pesos or similar in your wallet, or bank.
- sgt101 9y agoAnd it could more or less go away in about two weeks if it became a political issue.
- _coldfire 9y agoBy what means? If you can send and receive tcp packets you can be on the bitcoin network. I'd be intrigued how you think a government is going to shutdown a FOSS project with no leadership? Last I looked turning off the internet isn't that popular and making laws doesn't prevent crimes, nor migration to other jurisdictions.
- h1d 9y agoCheck China. BTC withdrawal getting suspended from exchanges.
- VMG 9y agoWhat is counterparty risk?
- sgt101 9y agoIf you live in Venezuela then Bitcoins are actually a way of joining the dollar world. They are a covert proxy for the economy of people who pay taxes to the greatest military power the world will ever see. Until there is a ban in the US (or EU, or China). Or even a rumour of a ban. So it's a decent bet, but right up until it becomes a problem for the US authorities at which point it becomes a disaster.
- valuearb 9y agoIt's impossible to ban, that's the whole point of bitcoin.
- legolas2412 9y agoBut it can be made illegal. On that note, cash is also impossible to ban.
- valuearb 9y agoCash is far easier to confiscate. Even if you make bitcoin illegal, how do you can catch them with it?
- sgt101 9y agoSee : Silkroad. You smash in the door, you grab up the peoples, you put them in the room with a pen and paper. You have the bitcoin. Double quick.
- valuearb 9y agoNothing protects you from a government that is willing to imprison and torture you and your family, friends and associates. But in Silk Roads case, they had a murder for hire plot, knew the defendants had bitcoin, and the defendants were willing to bargain to reduce sentences. If you are a businessman in Venezuela, it's unlikely the local corrupt politicians will know you have bitcoin. They can search your properties and find cash, bullion, etc, but they should never be able to find your bitcoin. If you travel or leave the country you dont need to hide it on your person to get away. Once out of the country you can easily turn it into cash and other assets. You can easily return and rinse/repeat.
- benchaney 9y agoI spend a fair amount of time telling people not to overhype Bitcoin/blockchains (I even did so in another place in this thread), but even to me this is stupid. Some highlights: > The USA has the world's largest GNI by some measures, it holds thousands of tons gold in Fort Knox and other places. In 1971 the dollar was an abstraction of its gold reserves, since then its been an abstraction of that abstraction. Bitcoin is an abstraction of an abstraction of that abstraction. Care to explain why 2 levels is fine but 3 levels is obviously worthless? > Any how, the Bitcoin scam claimed a magic wand could create value, so unsurprisingly other scams arose - Ethereum, Ripple, NEM etc. all currently have billion dollar market caps. Bitcoin has value for the same reason that anything has value. Because people value it. No magic wands needed. > Bitcoin was not created by a Ponzi, but by some criminal who has kept their identity completely secret. If this doesn't wake you up to the con, I don't know what will. This is the icing on the cake of stupidity. You call him a criminal. What law has he broken?
- chvid 9y agoComparing bitcoin or similar to USD misses one big thing: You have to (if you live in USA) pay taxes in USD; if do not you will be met with the force of the state. This creates a default demand for USD and there is nothing comparable to that for bitcoin.
- RexetBlell 9y agoBasically you're saying that what gives the dollar value is that without it the government would imprison you for not paying taxes? In other words, it's a kind of like a freedom (from jail) token according to you.
- andrewla 9y agoI keep hearing this argument and it continues to make no sense to me. With the exception of fixed levies (like property taxes) all other taxes are proportional to income valued in USD. Multiplication is commutative, though -- if I earn 100 BTC, and say my tax rate is 30%, then I own 30 BTC in taxes, at the prevailing exchange rate -- the demand for dollars is an illusion here; regardless of the value of dollars relative to BTC, I owe 30 BTC worth of dollars; if dollars are worth a lot, then I owe few of them, if they are worth little, then I owe a lot of them. There is no function forcing value into USD.
- empath75 9y agoEverything you've said about bitcoin has been true for going on 8 years now, and yet it's still around.
- valuearb 9y agoYou wouldn't say bitcons are worthless if you lived in Venesuala, or a hundred other countries where the government can take your property at the drop of a hat.
- andr3w321 9y agoBitcoins are pretty damn useful actually. Try and buy porn/drugs/gambling anonymously on the internet any other way and get back to me how difficult it was compared to using bitcoin.