3 ms·

Lying to a federal employee is a felony; if you know you are answering untruthfully and the USG can prove it then you are probably going to prison.

peeters 9y ago
What lie has been told?
- vorticalbox 9y ago
  From what I understand, it removes everything but ones marked as safe therefore you're not hiding anything. It's like moving your private files from a device before travelling, you're not hiding anything you just didn't bring it.
  - peeters 9y ago
    That's how I understand it. It is the physical presence of data that allows the warrantless search in the first place. Leaving data off of your device would be treated no different than leaving your device at home entirely.
  - zwily 9y ago
    So how does the whole "show us Facebook" thing work then? They're interested in your Facebook bits stored on the internet, not the bits on your device.
    - skewart 9y ago
      Right. And there is absolutely no legal justification for requesting you go fetch those bits from a data center hundreds of miles away and show them to the CBP employee. However, they are hoping that people don't know that and do it anyway, even though they don't have to. Also, a lot of CBP employees probably don't understand that distinction anyway. It feels like it's all "on the phone". Of course that distinction between data in your possession on your device and data that's hundreds or thousands of miles away might not matter if enough precedent accumulates to support forcing people to go fetch things when they're at the border. So we need to stand up for freedom from government intrusion now!
      - BearGoesChirp 9y ago
        >And there is absolutely no legal justification for requesting you go fetch those bits from a data center hundreds of miles away and show them to the CBP employee. Except they are allowed to deny your entry if you don't satisfy their whims.
djsumdog 9y ago
I think we need a lawyer here, but this seems totally wrong. You're only committing a crime if you lie under oath, either to a court or congress. Cops lie to people all the time. You should use your right to be silent rather than answer any questions of course, but that right disappears at the border. Still, lying to a customs agent isn't a felony (at least not in the US). (If so, please cite the law). If you're not a citizen of the country you are entering, the most they can do is refuse entry. If you are a citizen, well there is where it can get complicated.
- dreamcompiler 9y ago
  Very much not true. Counter to the way we think America should work perhaps, but many people have gone to prison for lying to federal officials while not under oath. Martha Stewart being one of the most famous. Your best strategy when confronted with uncomfortable questions by federal officials in the US is to say "I wish to consult with my attorney before answering any questions." The result might be a lot of unpleasantness and delay, but they cannot throw you in prison for saying those words.
- biehl 9y ago
  I think you are thinking of "Perjury" - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perjury https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perjury Other forms of lying can also be illegal, however.
- LyndsySimon 9y ago
  Here's information on the law you seek: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
- peeters 9y ago
  > You're only committing a crime if you lie under oath, either to a court or congress. This is unfortunately far from the truth. See this recent post: http://www.wisenberglaw.com/Articles/How-to-Avoid-Going-to-Jail-under-18-U-S-C-Section-1001-for-Lying-to-Government-Agents.shtml http://www.wisenberglaw.com/Articles/How-to-Avoid-Going-to-J...
pwdisswordfish 9y ago
I don't think lie detection using ultrasonography is very reliable...

peeters 9y ago

What lie has been told?

vorticalbox 9y ago
From what I understand, it removes everything but ones marked as safe therefore you're not hiding anything. It's like moving your private files from a device before travelling, you're not hiding anything you just didn't bring it.
- peeters 9y ago
  That's how I understand it. It is the physical presence of data that allows the warrantless search in the first place. Leaving data off of your device would be treated no different than leaving your device at home entirely.
- zwily 9y ago
  So how does the whole "show us Facebook" thing work then? They're interested in your Facebook bits stored on the internet, not the bits on your device.
  - skewart 9y ago
    Right. And there is absolutely no legal justification for requesting you go fetch those bits from a data center hundreds of miles away and show them to the CBP employee. However, they are hoping that people don't know that and do it anyway, even though they don't have to. Also, a lot of CBP employees probably don't understand that distinction anyway. It feels like it's all "on the phone". Of course that distinction between data in your possession on your device and data that's hundreds or thousands of miles away might not matter if enough precedent accumulates to support forcing people to go fetch things when they're at the border. So we need to stand up for freedom from government intrusion now!
    - BearGoesChirp 9y ago
      >And there is absolutely no legal justification for requesting you go fetch those bits from a data center hundreds of miles away and show them to the CBP employee. Except they are allowed to deny your entry if you don't satisfy their whims.

djsumdog 9y ago

I think we need a lawyer here, but this seems totally wrong. You're only committing a crime if you lie under oath, either to a court or congress. Cops lie to people all the time. You should use your right to be silent rather than answer any questions of course, but that right disappears at the border. Still, lying to a customs agent isn't a felony (at least not in the US). (If so, please cite the law). If you're not a citizen of the country you are entering, the most they can do is refuse entry. If you are a citizen, well there is where it can get complicated.

dreamcompiler 9y ago
Very much not true. Counter to the way we think America should work perhaps, but many people have gone to prison for lying to federal officials while not under oath. Martha Stewart being one of the most famous. Your best strategy when confronted with uncomfortable questions by federal officials in the US is to say "I wish to consult with my attorney before answering any questions." The result might be a lot of unpleasantness and delay, but they cannot throw you in prison for saying those words.
biehl 9y ago
I think you are thinking of "Perjury" - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perjury https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perjury Other forms of lying can also be illegal, however.
LyndsySimon 9y ago
Here's information on the law you seek: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
peeters 9y ago
> You're only committing a crime if you lie under oath, either to a court or congress. This is unfortunately far from the truth. See this recent post: http://www.wisenberglaw.com/Articles/How-to-Avoid-Going-to-Jail-under-18-U-S-C-Section-1001-for-Lying-to-Government-Agents.shtml http://www.wisenberglaw.com/Articles/How-to-Avoid-Going-to-J...

pwdisswordfish 9y ago

I don't think lie detection using ultrasonography is very reliable...