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Wouldn't an alternative "destroy everything" password be a good idea also ? Would work like this : When forced to enter / give the password to your vault, you
by netgusto 9y ago
Wouldn't an alternative "destroy everything" password be a good idea also ?
Would work like this : When forced to enter / give the password to your vault, you enter/give this one, and everything the vault contains is wiped out before the vault is unlocked.
- crooked-v 9y agoThat's basically the definition of spoliation of evidence, if things were to ever escalate to civil or criminal proceedings.
- soverystatesly 9y agoThis qualifies already. 18 U.S. Code § 1519 defines it as "Whoever knowingly...conceals...with the intent to impede...the proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States" So technically, entering travel mode for the purpose of hiding your stuff from border agents could be interpreted as a violation of that statute, regardless of whether there was an active investigation or legal proceeding. Of course, it would trigger a massive backlash if a federal prosecutor went after people for this. But it's there...
- jwr 9y agoI think there is a line to be drawn somewhere, and I don't know where — but taking this further, if I erase my laptop before going to the US and then restore it from a backup online, isn't this the same thing as „knowingly concealing with the intent to impede”? And what if I don't take the laptop at all? Am I „concealing” anything? Theoretically — yes. There has to be a limit to how far one can take the application of that law.
- maxerickson 9y agoIf you aren't aware of a matter concerning your data you can't intend to impede that matter by choosing not to transport your data on your person.
- eridius 9y agoEntering travel mode is literally deleting the data off your computer. It's not concealing anything. I think a federal prosecutor would have a hell of a time arguing that people aren't allowed to erase data from their computer before traveling.
- Analemma_ 9y agoIn the law, intent matters. You're deleting the data with the intent to hide it from border agents. A federal prosecutor absolutely could argue that, if they wished.
- maxerickson 9y agoI'd be entering travel mode with the intent of removing the ability to access the data from the device. I would be surprised if travel mode deleted my data.
- eridius 9y agoYou're deleting the data because you don't want to travel with that data. You're not hiding it. You literally just don't want to have access to it while you're traveling. In that sense it's no different than, say, leaving a hard drive with all your data behind (plugged into an internet-enabled computer that you can SSH in to and transfer your files back to yourself after you've crossed the border).
- Analemma_ 9y agoRead rosser's comment above. If push came to shove, your clever wordplay would amount to getting into a rules-lawyering contest with Federal prosecutors, and I promise you that is a contest you would lose.
- eridius 9y agoI don't think it's rules lawyering to say that literally not having the data is different than hiding it. There's nothing illegal about choosing to not bring stuff with you when you travel. And as long as the CBP's authority is limited to searching your devices and not forcing you to log into websites, then simply not carrying the data on your device seems perfectly reasonable. Furthermore, I don't think there's anything productive at all about making the argument that federal prosecutors will get you no matter what you do. That's just shutting down the discussion entirely.
- ben_jones 9y agoThere would be no backlash unless the person was well-known, all they would have to do is show an unflattering picture of the victim and accuse them of 'possessing hacking tools' and 'hiding information from law enforcement.' Both would be true, the latter being actually true and the former applying to anyone using a terminal with black background and green text.
- IcyPickle 9y agoThe "matter within the jurisdiction" of border control is to inspect anything being brought across the border. You're not impeding that. You're simply not bringing something across the border. This is different from e.g. hiding drugs in your suitcase (or even data on a device): there you're impeding their ability to inspect those drugs.
- badlucklottery 9y agoI think using it would be tampering with evidence in the USA. So probably a bad idea.
- awinter-py 9y agoNot clear you're destroying evidence -- is it evidence if there's no probable cause for the search? If a crime hasn't been committed? Hard to apply ordinary statutes & case law here because the 4th amendment doesn't seem to apply to border agents.
- int_19h 9y agoIs it evidence at the point where, say, a CBP agent asks you to show him your data? I mean, they're not a judge, and it's not a trial, or even an investigation into some crime.
- rosser 9y agoDo you want to go to prison?
- datatan 9y agoThere needs to be a crime before someone can be charged with tampering. No crime, no evidence, no tampering.
- Youareweakhn 9y agoBetter than being a bitch
- eridius 9y agoNo. That's only a good idea if the criminal sentence for destruction of evidence is less than the criminal sentence you'd receive for possessing whatever data it is you just destroyed.
- matt_wulfeck 9y agoOnce again we drum up technical "solutions" to what ultimately is a policy issue. A better idea is to change our laws so that our constitutional rights are respected. If that's not possible then the next solution is to change our elected officials.
- christopheraden 9y agoWhile it is a policy issue at its core, changing law and policy moves at a glacial pace, and it's not even a certainty that it'll get changed at all (the "nothing to hide" defense gets brought up a lot on these matters, and it's a pretty persuasive argument to those that can't recognize the fallacy). Technical solutions have the benefit of being much quicker to enact, albeit in a flawed way that is, if highly successful, a band-aid on a bullet wound.
- greyfox 9y agogenious idea though
- JustSomeNobody 9y agoNothing wrong with using technical "solutions" to prove the point of needing policy changes.
- djsumdog 9y ago> change our elected officials In America, who you vote in has very little effect on public policy, and by very little I mean a near zero/statically insignificant amount (unless you're part of the top 10% of income earners): http://fightthefuture.org/videos/does-voting-make-a-difference/ http://fightthefuture.org/videos/does-voting-make-a-differen...
- specialist 9y agoEeyore / South Park style cyncism actively forments apathy. Self-fulfiling prophesy. Counterpoint: My friends and associates do amazing things. Marriage equality, marijuana legalization, DREAM Act, etc, etc. I (a yeoman) also do what I can. Maybe think of politics, society, culture like thermodynamics: Organization requires continuous effort, to mitigate entropy.
- djsumdog 9y agoYou'd want to make sure it erased the data while making it seem like the data set was empty. You'd even need that special password to remove traces of itself and how it erased the encrypted data, as anything left over could be evidence for destroying evidence.
- TheRealDunkirk 9y agoPerhaps not wiped out, but your normal password could unlock your normal store, while a "duress" password would unlock a store of dummy information.