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Because I wanted to address this fallacious argument that appears over and over. In case I wasn't clear: I think any sensible policy has to include punitive m

Because I wanted to address this fallacious argument that appears over and over. In case I wasn't clear: I think any sensible policy has to include punitive measures, along with adequate support.

zepto 9y ago
You were not clear. But now that you have been, how is this anything other than empty? Who would disagree other than some fictional absolutist?
- omginternets 9y ago
  >other than some fictional absolutist? Like the OP who claims that all punishment is problematic? >how is this anything other than empty? As you so astutely observed, I have nothing of substance to add to that part of the discussion. Where I do have something of substance to add is with respect to an oft-repeated factual error about brain development, and a broader misconception about the problems involved in punitive measurements. For someone worried about pedantry, you sure seem to be splitting hairs.
  - zepto 9y ago
    Try reading the OP again and you will find no claim that all punishment is problematic.
taxicabjesus 9y ago
> In case I wasn't clear: I think any sensible policy has to include punitive measures, along with adequate support. What sort of punitive measure is appropriate to use on someone whose doctor turned her into an alcoholic? What sort of punitive measures are appropriate for use on depressed people? "Sensible policy" would acknowledge that prison usually makes people's actual behavioral problems worse.
- omginternets 9y ago
  >"Sensible policy" would acknowledge that prison usually makes people's actual behavioral problems worse. Indeed. Prison is not the only form of punishment, and indeed it is not the most effective (in a large, if not overwhelming, majority of cases). I think if you stopped and caught your breath, you'd realize we're mostly in agreement.
  - zepto 9y ago
    Nothing you wrote before this suggests any agreement. I believe you actually are in a fair degree of agreement now, but your approach to communication didn't convey that and you should review it if you intend to be constructive.

Because I wanted to address this fallacious argument that appears over and over. In case I wasn't clear: I think any sensible policy has to include punitive measures, along with adequate support.

zepto 9y ago

You were not clear. But now that you have been, how is this anything other than empty? Who would disagree other than some fictional absolutist?

omginternets 9y ago
>other than some fictional absolutist? Like the OP who claims that all punishment is problematic? >how is this anything other than empty? As you so astutely observed, I have nothing of substance to add to that part of the discussion. Where I do have something of substance to add is with respect to an oft-repeated factual error about brain development, and a broader misconception about the problems involved in punitive measurements. For someone worried about pedantry, you sure seem to be splitting hairs.
- zepto 9y ago
  Try reading the OP again and you will find no claim that all punishment is problematic.

taxicabjesus 9y ago

> In case I wasn't clear: I think any sensible policy has to include punitive measures, along with adequate support. What sort of punitive measure is appropriate to use on someone whose doctor turned her into an alcoholic? What sort of punitive measures are appropriate for use on depressed people? "Sensible policy" would acknowledge that prison usually makes people's actual behavioral problems worse.

omginternets 9y ago
>"Sensible policy" would acknowledge that prison usually makes people's actual behavioral problems worse. Indeed. Prison is not the only form of punishment, and indeed it is not the most effective (in a large, if not overwhelming, majority of cases). I think if you stopped and caught your breath, you'd realize we're mostly in agreement.
- zepto 9y ago
  Nothing you wrote before this suggests any agreement. I believe you actually are in a fair degree of agreement now, but your approach to communication didn't convey that and you should review it if you intend to be constructive.