8 ms·

Japan is at the pinnacle of denim these days (although the US is catching up again). If you want to go off the deep end, take a look at SF based Self Edge [http

by baus 9y ago

Japan is at the pinnacle of denim these days (although the US is catching up again). If you want to go off the deep end, take a look at SF based Self Edge [http://www.selfedge.com http://www.selfedge.com] or NY based Blue in Green [https://blueingreensoho.com/ https://blueingreensoho.com/]

santaclaus 9y ago
Those are some Russ Hanneman jeans
huac 9y ago
Blue Owl in Seattle is good too. These denim stores are mostly focused on raw denim, which is generally a much higher quality garment than available normally.
- nightski 9y ago
  The quality difference would have to be substantial. I bring in a very high income for my area, and the thought of spending $300-$400 on a single pair of jeans is pretty out there. An $80 pair of jeans, which will often be on sale for $40-$50 will last me for 2-3 years and are of average quality. It seems to me like one would have to justify these jeans on the fashion/novelty aspect, and not quality/value as it just isn't there imho.
  - baus 9y ago
    If you take a pair of unwashed 501s and compare them to a pair of unwashed Iron Heart denim, you will see that the quality difference is substantial. Whether that matters is something you have to decide for yourself Since I wear denim almost everyday, the quality difference and the attention to detail matters to me. It reminds me that attention to detail matters in my own work I don't understand why engineers tend to care so little about the quality of their clothes
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - anigbrowl 9y ago
      I don't understand why engineers tend to care so little about the quality of their clothes Virtue signaling. It says you're focused on your intellectual pursuits rather than material things (in contrast to 'the suits'). This is actually great from a hiring manager's point of view, because you can also guess (guess, not know) from someone's appearance whether they are single and to what degree they take care of themselves, while will in turn give an idea of how much work you can pile onto them before they figure it out or change their personality. For those who don't 'get' clothes (as a former sufferer): you may not be able to readily distinguish expensive clothes from cheap ones, or see the point of wearing them. But other people do, and if you look like money, you will be able to get more money in negotiations. If you look or say that you don't care about such things, you'll get lots of affirmation and less money, because affirmation is virtually free. There's also a kind of signaling by people who are rich enough not to care about these things and dress accordingly, which is a way of reminding other people that you have so much money you don't care about what impression you make. This only works when people already know you're wealthy, though.
      - wutbrodo 9y ago
        Oh please. Virtue signalling is a useful topic, but it gets really tiresome to see people who just discovered the concept run around and excitedly apply it to everything, like a child with a new toy. The downside of higher quality clothing (money) is obvious: it's the upside that needs explaining. Fashion is the prototypical example of signaling, and quality as held separate from fashion has a couple minor advantages like being long-lasting and marginally more comfortable that many people feel aren't worth the price. I dress moderately well, but that's largely against my preferences. I do it because I'm aware that people treat you differently based on how you look and how you dress, and I've decided that the cost and annoyance of putting together a good wardrobe is worth the benefits. To be clear, I've got a pretty low opinion of those who judge others based on their attire, but I'm realistic (and cynical) enough to get that that's the world I live in. I've worked with a lot of incredibly smart engineers at places like Google, and the people I know pretty much ran the gamut of caring about the quality of their clothing. The only difference is that they tended to have their work performance judged on productivity instead of fashion so, relative to others, their calculus for how to dress included one less variable in favor of dressing up.
  - bubblethink 9y ago
    A huge chunk of that price is because these guys are importing them from Japan, and selling in brick and mortar stores in the US. You are paying a significant sum for the convenience of ordering them. If you know what you want, you can order them from rakuten with a bit of google translate directly. Also, the law of diminishing returns and all that. The sweet spot is generally $75-$150, even for fancy raw denim jeans if you look out for deals etc.
    - nightski 9y ago
      I see that makes a lot of sense. The jeans I am wearing now were originally ~ $80 so $75-$150 is much more reasonable to me. They do look really nice, I was just slightly shocked by the $300-$400 prices.
    - baus 9y ago
      You can buy Japanese selvage denim jeans in Tokyo for around $150 or less. You can buy SF / NC made denim for around $100. I think that fair for a higher quality product made with fairly paid labor [http://www.tellason.com/tellason-stock-straight-leg-fit/ http://www.tellason.com/tellason-stock-straight-leg-fit/] If you want denim of the same quality of Japanese selvage, made in the US, then it is back to the $200+ range [http://www.tellason.com/ankara-straight-leg-selvedge-jeans-16-5-oz/ http://www.tellason.com/ankara-straight-leg-selvedge-jeans-1...]
    - ashark 9y ago
      How does one nail down sizing on stuff like this? I imagine returns to a Japanese-only store from a US address, for someone who doesn't speak Japanese, and crossing a cultural barrier for how sales/service should work, are nightmarish, so you'd want to get it right the first time.
      - bubblethink 9y ago
        Yeah, that's why I said 'if you know what you want'. It's not that bad though. The listings have accurate measurements. You do need to have a general sense of what would work for you though. The only variable that you are choosing really is waist size. Jeans are not hemmed anyway.
  - hx87 9y ago
    From those numbers it seems like if the $300-400 pair lasts 10-15 years and you have a low personal discount rate they would be worth the cost.
  - chris_7 9y ago
    At $200 you can buy Outlier pants (or Mission Workshop, no experience with those though). At $400 you can buy freaking Arc'teryx Veilance pants. That's way too much for something that is just cotton (and not even etaProof or anything interesting).
    - Nav_Panel 9y ago
      Tell that to someone who'd buy a pair of Vetements pants for $1200[1]. And it's standard Levi's denim! But hey, the fly goes all the way around... In other words, the fashion aspect does matter to people, oftentimes more than any practical aspect. (I think sometimes people take it to a silly degree...) 1: http://www.barneys.com/product/vetements-zip-around-straight-jeans-504851157.html http://www.barneys.com/product/vetements-zip-around-straight...
      - squeaky-clean 9y ago
        I don't think Vetements is a fair comparison though as they're based around that sort of hype and designer fashion. There's really no reason for such high prices aside from exclusivity and who the designers are. If some people like that, that's fine, but they're not being bought specifically for quality and looks you can't find elsewhere. Even the founder/designer jokes that he wouldn't pay full price for his own designs. http://www.complex.com/style/2016/05/vetements-designer-demna-gvasalia-pay-full-price-brand-clothes http://www.complex.com/style/2016/05/vetements-designer-demn... > My friends very often can’t afford the clothes. Like myself, I wear prototypes but I don’t think I’m crazy fashion enough to go and buy those things. I’d rather go on holiday. I feel like it brings more use. Holidays are important. Holidays and quality time on your sofa.
        Nav_Panel 9y ago
        Heh, yeah, that was sort-of what I wanted to emphasize. I feel like some of the appeal of high-priced denim is for the fashion aspects, even if the quality is a little better than Levi's or similar mass-produced stuff. > Even the founder/designer jokes that he wouldn't pay full price for his own designs. I really don't blame him. A lot of it seems like jokey conceptual art stuff. Cute to look at/think about but I probably wouldn't wear.
  - squeaky-clean 9y ago
    Prices aren't always so high. I think $150-200 is more common, and there's even ones like Unbranded that run $80-120 (and go on sale too). It's still a bit more than regular jeans, but I like jeans a lot, and I spend more time wearing jeans than I do playing Xbox or something, so I don't mind spending more on my favorite pair of jeans. Another particular reason people love raw denim is the high contrast fades that match your body because you faded them. Here's a picture someone posted to reddit.com/r/rawdenim a little while ago, 1 year heavy wear with an $120 pair of Unbranded: http://imgur.com/GtoC42V http://imgur.com/GtoC42V And here is a picture of what UB221 jeans look like brand new. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0810/7201/products/Taper_-_21_Indigo_B_1024x1024.jpg?v=1463532489 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0810/7201/products/Taper_-...
    - woobar 9y ago
      I wonder how this picture (captioned "Daily wear riding motorcycles") works with the common american attitude of washing their clothes after wearing them just once? I know some people will wear jeans two/three times before washing them, but changing clothes daily is still expected in the office environment. So you will need at least 5 different pairs to cycle through each week. At the end of the year each pair is worn ~60 times, and washed about < 20 times. I personally buy cheap $30 jeans, have ~10 in active rotation, only wear them on workdays and wash them all once a month. They last for years. I throw them away not because they are worn out, but because my preference changes. So for me all this talk about quality of the more expensive jeans doesn't ring true.
      - remir 9y ago
        I'd say 5 different pairs is overkill. I'd go with 3. Who will really notice if you wear your dark jeans two days in a row? I mean, who cares?
      - squeaky-clean 9y ago
        Here's the original post if you'd like to read it https://www.reddit.com/r/rawdenim/comments/6ci52s/ub221_daily_wear_riding_motorcycles_in_the_hot/ https://www.reddit.com/r/rawdenim/comments/6ci52s/ub221_dail... A comment written by the OP of that post: > 2-3 washes I think? And. 2 soaks in a hot bath tub. But also multiple, uncountable amounts of getting caught in the pouring rain riding a motorcycle. I remember riding during hurricane Hermine wearing them With raw denim (and especially on the subreddit and other internet forums) not washing it is almost a badge of honor. Months or longer in some cases. Because you're right, you don't need to wash them very often, and also washing them causes them to fade overall, so you lose some contrast. > I personally buy cheap $30 jeans, have ~10 in active rotation Ah, but that's the difference, this is often someone's only pair of jeans. So you're comparing $300 of jeans to a $122 pair of jeans. I rotate between a few pairs because I need the variety, but some people may end up wearing a single pair of jeans over 300 times in a year and washing it once or twice.
  - Cyph0n 9y ago
    The replies to this comment are the definition of pretentiousness. Virtue signalling? Really now?
  - cmod 9y ago
    I recommend Hiut Denim: https://hiutdenim.co.uk/collections/mens https://hiutdenim.co.uk/collections/mens Reasonably priced. Exceptional quality. And you get to support a community of jeans makers in Wales. Also — free repairs for life. I've sent a couple of pairs back a few times because I wear the hell out of my jeans, and they return with repairs almost more beautiful than the original fabric. Truly one of those rare companies that does one thing extremely well.
  - toomanybeersies 9y ago
    I don't wear expensive jeans, but I've found that often with expensive things, you don't realise what you're missing out on until you try something better. Binoculars is a good example. You've probably only ever looked through a $50 pair of binos, and thought that looks good enough. But compare it to a $500 set, and the difference will seem like night and day.
- DaggerDagger 9y ago
  INb4 people talk about $300 jeans. These are jeans you only have one pair of, that you wear EVERY DAY. They are worth it but it's like buying a nice sports car or nice purse. It's the same thing. Invest in what you use all the time.
  - mmagin 9y ago
    Do you wash them every night or what? Don't tell me about ridiculous things like not washing them or freezing them or something.
    - csommers 9y ago
      Nope. I was them when they get dirty, just like anything else.
    - huac 9y ago
      Not washing them is actually pretty reasonable. I wash my raw denim jeans roughly every 4 or 5 months; this does coincide with how often they actually get dirty.
    - toomanybeersies 9y ago
      Do you wash ever piece of clothing after wearing it once? Most pants (in the American sense, not British) should last you at least a couple of days. I'm not going to wash a nice pair of woolen trousers every day.
djtriptych 9y ago
Just a note that Blue in Green, while in NY, deals mostly in Japanese denim. Great shop though.
RUG3Y 9y ago
Japanese companies bought most of the US denim weaving equipment after the US textile industry collapsed. Now Japan seems to produce the highest quality denim the way we used to do.

by baus 9y ago

santaclaus 9y ago

Those are some Russ Hanneman jeans

huac 9y ago

Blue Owl in Seattle is good too. These denim stores are mostly focused on raw denim, which is generally a much higher quality garment than available normally.

nightski 9y ago
The quality difference would have to be substantial. I bring in a very high income for my area, and the thought of spending $300-$400 on a single pair of jeans is pretty out there. An $80 pair of jeans, which will often be on sale for $40-$50 will last me for 2-3 years and are of average quality. It seems to me like one would have to justify these jeans on the fashion/novelty aspect, and not quality/value as it just isn't there imho.
- baus 9y ago
  If you take a pair of unwashed 501s and compare them to a pair of unwashed Iron Heart denim, you will see that the quality difference is substantial. Whether that matters is something you have to decide for yourself Since I wear denim almost everyday, the quality difference and the attention to detail matters to me. It reminds me that attention to detail matters in my own work I don't understand why engineers tend to care so little about the quality of their clothes
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - anigbrowl 9y ago
    I don't understand why engineers tend to care so little about the quality of their clothes Virtue signaling. It says you're focused on your intellectual pursuits rather than material things (in contrast to 'the suits'). This is actually great from a hiring manager's point of view, because you can also guess (guess, not know) from someone's appearance whether they are single and to what degree they take care of themselves, while will in turn give an idea of how much work you can pile onto them before they figure it out or change their personality. For those who don't 'get' clothes (as a former sufferer): you may not be able to readily distinguish expensive clothes from cheap ones, or see the point of wearing them. But other people do, and if you look like money, you will be able to get more money in negotiations. If you look or say that you don't care about such things, you'll get lots of affirmation and less money, because affirmation is virtually free. There's also a kind of signaling by people who are rich enough not to care about these things and dress accordingly, which is a way of reminding other people that you have so much money you don't care about what impression you make. This only works when people already know you're wealthy, though.
    - wutbrodo 9y ago
      Oh please. Virtue signalling is a useful topic, but it gets really tiresome to see people who just discovered the concept run around and excitedly apply it to everything, like a child with a new toy. The downside of higher quality clothing (money) is obvious: it's the upside that needs explaining. Fashion is the prototypical example of signaling, and quality as held separate from fashion has a couple minor advantages like being long-lasting and marginally more comfortable that many people feel aren't worth the price. I dress moderately well, but that's largely against my preferences. I do it because I'm aware that people treat you differently based on how you look and how you dress, and I've decided that the cost and annoyance of putting together a good wardrobe is worth the benefits. To be clear, I've got a pretty low opinion of those who judge others based on their attire, but I'm realistic (and cynical) enough to get that that's the world I live in. I've worked with a lot of incredibly smart engineers at places like Google, and the people I know pretty much ran the gamut of caring about the quality of their clothing. The only difference is that they tended to have their work performance judged on productivity instead of fashion so, relative to others, their calculus for how to dress included one less variable in favor of dressing up.
- bubblethink 9y ago
  A huge chunk of that price is because these guys are importing them from Japan, and selling in brick and mortar stores in the US. You are paying a significant sum for the convenience of ordering them. If you know what you want, you can order them from rakuten with a bit of google translate directly. Also, the law of diminishing returns and all that. The sweet spot is generally $75-$150, even for fancy raw denim jeans if you look out for deals etc.
  - nightski 9y ago
    I see that makes a lot of sense. The jeans I am wearing now were originally ~ $80 so $75-$150 is much more reasonable to me. They do look really nice, I was just slightly shocked by the $300-$400 prices.
  - baus 9y ago
    You can buy Japanese selvage denim jeans in Tokyo for around $150 or less. You can buy SF / NC made denim for around $100. I think that fair for a higher quality product made with fairly paid labor [http://www.tellason.com/tellason-stock-straight-leg-fit/ http://www.tellason.com/tellason-stock-straight-leg-fit/] If you want denim of the same quality of Japanese selvage, made in the US, then it is back to the $200+ range [http://www.tellason.com/ankara-straight-leg-selvedge-jeans-16-5-oz/ http://www.tellason.com/ankara-straight-leg-selvedge-jeans-1...]
  - ashark 9y ago
    How does one nail down sizing on stuff like this? I imagine returns to a Japanese-only store from a US address, for someone who doesn't speak Japanese, and crossing a cultural barrier for how sales/service should work, are nightmarish, so you'd want to get it right the first time.
    - bubblethink 9y ago
      Yeah, that's why I said 'if you know what you want'. It's not that bad though. The listings have accurate measurements. You do need to have a general sense of what would work for you though. The only variable that you are choosing really is waist size. Jeans are not hemmed anyway.
- hx87 9y ago
  From those numbers it seems like if the $300-400 pair lasts 10-15 years and you have a low personal discount rate they would be worth the cost.
- chris_7 9y ago
  At $200 you can buy Outlier pants (or Mission Workshop, no experience with those though). At $400 you can buy freaking Arc'teryx Veilance pants. That's way too much for something that is just cotton (and not even etaProof or anything interesting).
  - Nav_Panel 9y ago
    Tell that to someone who'd buy a pair of Vetements pants for $1200[1]. And it's standard Levi's denim! But hey, the fly goes all the way around... In other words, the fashion aspect does matter to people, oftentimes more than any practical aspect. (I think sometimes people take it to a silly degree...) 1: http://www.barneys.com/product/vetements-zip-around-straight-jeans-504851157.html http://www.barneys.com/product/vetements-zip-around-straight...
    - squeaky-clean 9y ago
      I don't think Vetements is a fair comparison though as they're based around that sort of hype and designer fashion. There's really no reason for such high prices aside from exclusivity and who the designers are. If some people like that, that's fine, but they're not being bought specifically for quality and looks you can't find elsewhere. Even the founder/designer jokes that he wouldn't pay full price for his own designs. http://www.complex.com/style/2016/05/vetements-designer-demna-gvasalia-pay-full-price-brand-clothes http://www.complex.com/style/2016/05/vetements-designer-demn... > My friends very often can’t afford the clothes. Like myself, I wear prototypes but I don’t think I’m crazy fashion enough to go and buy those things. I’d rather go on holiday. I feel like it brings more use. Holidays are important. Holidays and quality time on your sofa.
      - Nav_Panel 9y ago
        Heh, yeah, that was sort-of what I wanted to emphasize. I feel like some of the appeal of high-priced denim is for the fashion aspects, even if the quality is a little better than Levi's or similar mass-produced stuff. > Even the founder/designer jokes that he wouldn't pay full price for his own designs. I really don't blame him. A lot of it seems like jokey conceptual art stuff. Cute to look at/think about but I probably wouldn't wear.
- squeaky-clean 9y ago
  Prices aren't always so high. I think $150-200 is more common, and there's even ones like Unbranded that run $80-120 (and go on sale too). It's still a bit more than regular jeans, but I like jeans a lot, and I spend more time wearing jeans than I do playing Xbox or something, so I don't mind spending more on my favorite pair of jeans. Another particular reason people love raw denim is the high contrast fades that match your body because you faded them. Here's a picture someone posted to reddit.com/r/rawdenim a little while ago, 1 year heavy wear with an $120 pair of Unbranded: http://imgur.com/GtoC42V http://imgur.com/GtoC42V And here is a picture of what UB221 jeans look like brand new. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0810/7201/products/Taper_-_21_Indigo_B_1024x1024.jpg?v=1463532489 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0810/7201/products/Taper_-...
  - woobar 9y ago
    I wonder how this picture (captioned "Daily wear riding motorcycles") works with the common american attitude of washing their clothes after wearing them just once? I know some people will wear jeans two/three times before washing them, but changing clothes daily is still expected in the office environment. So you will need at least 5 different pairs to cycle through each week. At the end of the year each pair is worn ~60 times, and washed about < 20 times. I personally buy cheap $30 jeans, have ~10 in active rotation, only wear them on workdays and wash them all once a month. They last for years. I throw them away not because they are worn out, but because my preference changes. So for me all this talk about quality of the more expensive jeans doesn't ring true.
    - remir 9y ago
      I'd say 5 different pairs is overkill. I'd go with 3. Who will really notice if you wear your dark jeans two days in a row? I mean, who cares?
    - squeaky-clean 9y ago
      Here's the original post if you'd like to read it https://www.reddit.com/r/rawdenim/comments/6ci52s/ub221_daily_wear_riding_motorcycles_in_the_hot/ https://www.reddit.com/r/rawdenim/comments/6ci52s/ub221_dail... A comment written by the OP of that post: > 2-3 washes I think? And. 2 soaks in a hot bath tub. But also multiple, uncountable amounts of getting caught in the pouring rain riding a motorcycle. I remember riding during hurricane Hermine wearing them With raw denim (and especially on the subreddit and other internet forums) not washing it is almost a badge of honor. Months or longer in some cases. Because you're right, you don't need to wash them very often, and also washing them causes them to fade overall, so you lose some contrast. > I personally buy cheap $30 jeans, have ~10 in active rotation Ah, but that's the difference, this is often someone's only pair of jeans. So you're comparing $300 of jeans to a $122 pair of jeans. I rotate between a few pairs because I need the variety, but some people may end up wearing a single pair of jeans over 300 times in a year and washing it once or twice.
- Cyph0n 9y ago
  The replies to this comment are the definition of pretentiousness. Virtue signalling? Really now?
- cmod 9y ago
  I recommend Hiut Denim: https://hiutdenim.co.uk/collections/mens https://hiutdenim.co.uk/collections/mens Reasonably priced. Exceptional quality. And you get to support a community of jeans makers in Wales. Also — free repairs for life. I've sent a couple of pairs back a few times because I wear the hell out of my jeans, and they return with repairs almost more beautiful than the original fabric. Truly one of those rare companies that does one thing extremely well.
- toomanybeersies 9y ago
  I don't wear expensive jeans, but I've found that often with expensive things, you don't realise what you're missing out on until you try something better. Binoculars is a good example. You've probably only ever looked through a $50 pair of binos, and thought that looks good enough. But compare it to a $500 set, and the difference will seem like night and day.
DaggerDagger 9y ago
INb4 people talk about $300 jeans. These are jeans you only have one pair of, that you wear EVERY DAY. They are worth it but it's like buying a nice sports car or nice purse. It's the same thing. Invest in what you use all the time.
- mmagin 9y ago
  Do you wash them every night or what? Don't tell me about ridiculous things like not washing them or freezing them or something.
  - csommers 9y ago
    Nope. I was them when they get dirty, just like anything else.
  - huac 9y ago
    Not washing them is actually pretty reasonable. I wash my raw denim jeans roughly every 4 or 5 months; this does coincide with how often they actually get dirty.
  - toomanybeersies 9y ago
    Do you wash ever piece of clothing after wearing it once? Most pants (in the American sense, not British) should last you at least a couple of days. I'm not going to wash a nice pair of woolen trousers every day.

djtriptych 9y ago

Just a note that Blue in Green, while in NY, deals mostly in Japanese denim. Great shop though.

RUG3Y 9y ago

Japanese companies bought most of the US denim weaving equipment after the US textile industry collapsed. Now Japan seems to produce the highest quality denim the way we used to do.