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One trend I am noticing is that I keep sensing a clear difference between, say, a standard iPad vs. a Surface. A standard iPad feels like a tablet appliance, w

One trend I am noticing is that I keep sensing a clear difference between, say, a standard iPad vs. a Surface. A standard iPad feels like a tablet appliance, whereas a Surface is a full-bore laptop in tablet form. Mentally, whenever I hold a Surface, I don't find myself thinking of the kind of experience I expect from the iPad. I realize now there is the iPad Pro, which has more horsepower/keyboard/pen etc., but it still doesn't feel like a full laptop. Does anyone else feel like the iPad experience is more.. I dunno, geared towards casual use and entertainment with the walled garden of apps, and Microsoft really doesn't reach/target the same market (even though they are trying)? EDIT: I guess I am trying to say, something about this market still doesn't feel quite right.. maybe there are still options to innovate.

dmix 9y ago
The primary use-case I'd imagine using with the Surface during the time I'm using it as a tablet is via the web browser. So as long as it has the web browsing UX down in tablet mode then I'd be perfectly happy with a product that switches between tablet vs laptop/desktop mode.
romaniv 9y ago
I had really bad experience with Surface Pro 3 (lots of hardware and software issues), but I have to say this: Microsoft is trying to do the right thing here. There is no reason tablets should be dumb-down media consumption devices when they have computing power equivalent to desktop PCs of a few years ago. But to be used as real computers they must have keyboard and stylus by default and must allow to install arbitrary apps without jailbreaking and hoops. The biggest thing that's dragging Surface down is its UI. Neither classic Windows apps, nor Metro apps are very pleasant to use on the given hardware. I wonder what Alan Kay thinks of Surfaces compared to iPads.
- freeone3000 9y ago
  Surface Pros run Windows 10, so they have the same UI as other computers. I don't see the problem?
  - fredsir 9y ago
    If the UI/UX is bad for any one or all devices it runs it, that is a problem.
    - fraculto09 9y ago
      It's not, there are two modes, one for tablets and one for desktops/laptops, and you can quickly switch between them.
      - fredsir 9y ago
        And that's the problem. The two modes doesn't "change" (or the apps are just the properly optimized for the different modes) the apps enough so in reality, an app is either good in one mode or the other, not in both.
  - romaniv 9y ago
    Something that works well for a desktop with a large monitor, keyboard and mouse doesn't necessarily work well for a tablet with a relatively small touchscreen and vise versa.
  - Analemma_ 9y ago
    Unfortunately, as far as "tablet mode" is concerned, Windows 10 is still a step back from Windows 8. Obviously Windows 8 had its problems, but the tablet UI was fantastic. W10 has gradually been getting back the W8 tablet features it dropped though, so maybe it'll get there
ChuckMcM 9y ago
I think you are just channeling the tensions that exist in the market. And that is to be expected. It is really fascinating to look at laptop and tablet and phone evolution from a distance. Computers became "personal", and then "luggable", and then "portable", and then "laptop", and then "handheld", and then "phones." As they walked that transition computers were getting more and more powerful, but they were still shedding features as the evolved. And then at the 'phone' endpoint of evolution they sort of 'bounced backward'. The key to that bounce was screens. First they got to be higher resolution, and then they got to be bigger (clearly testing what was more desirable). And as boundaries along size have started to settle out they have been getting back peripherals (pens, styli, and keyboards). I feel like the current hardware has re-affirmed a couple of truths. One is that keyboards remain an accelerator for input much like bicycles accelerate walking. Very difficult to improve upon. Styli only make sense if they are at least as good as the instruments most people use and that measure of 'goodness' is sensitivity and lag. The last is that command entry is often gesture based, and while you can do it with keyboards or styli there is a certain "grace" associated with turning the page by flicking your finger rather than pressing the 'down arrow' key or the 'next' button. The tension is that all of them, the laptop, the tablet, the phone are the "same" thing but tuned in slightly different ways.

dmix 9y ago

The primary use-case I'd imagine using with the Surface during the time I'm using it as a tablet is via the web browser. So as long as it has the web browsing UX down in tablet mode then I'd be perfectly happy with a product that switches between tablet vs laptop/desktop mode.

romaniv 9y ago

I had really bad experience with Surface Pro 3 (lots of hardware and software issues), but I have to say this: Microsoft is trying to do the right thing here. There is no reason tablets should be dumb-down media consumption devices when they have computing power equivalent to desktop PCs of a few years ago. But to be used as real computers they must have keyboard and stylus by default and must allow to install arbitrary apps without jailbreaking and hoops. The biggest thing that's dragging Surface down is its UI. Neither classic Windows apps, nor Metro apps are very pleasant to use on the given hardware. I wonder what Alan Kay thinks of Surfaces compared to iPads.

freeone3000 9y ago
Surface Pros run Windows 10, so they have the same UI as other computers. I don't see the problem?
- fredsir 9y ago
  If the UI/UX is bad for any one or all devices it runs it, that is a problem.
  - fraculto09 9y ago
    It's not, there are two modes, one for tablets and one for desktops/laptops, and you can quickly switch between them.
    - fredsir 9y ago
      And that's the problem. The two modes doesn't "change" (or the apps are just the properly optimized for the different modes) the apps enough so in reality, an app is either good in one mode or the other, not in both.
- romaniv 9y ago
  Something that works well for a desktop with a large monitor, keyboard and mouse doesn't necessarily work well for a tablet with a relatively small touchscreen and vise versa.
- Analemma_ 9y ago
  Unfortunately, as far as "tablet mode" is concerned, Windows 10 is still a step back from Windows 8. Obviously Windows 8 had its problems, but the tablet UI was fantastic. W10 has gradually been getting back the W8 tablet features it dropped though, so maybe it'll get there

ChuckMcM 9y ago

I think you are just channeling the tensions that exist in the market. And that is to be expected. It is really fascinating to look at laptop and tablet and phone evolution from a distance. Computers became "personal", and then "luggable", and then "portable", and then "laptop", and then "handheld", and then "phones." As they walked that transition computers were getting more and more powerful, but they were still shedding features as the evolved. And then at the 'phone' endpoint of evolution they sort of 'bounced backward'. The key to that bounce was screens. First they got to be higher resolution, and then they got to be bigger (clearly testing what was more desirable). And as boundaries along size have started to settle out they have been getting back peripherals (pens, styli, and keyboards). I feel like the current hardware has re-affirmed a couple of truths. One is that keyboards remain an accelerator for input much like bicycles accelerate walking. Very difficult to improve upon. Styli only make sense if they are at least as good as the instruments most people use and that measure of 'goodness' is sensitivity and lag. The last is that command entry is often gesture based, and while you can do it with keyboards or styli there is a certain "grace" associated with turning the page by flicking your finger rather than pressing the 'down arrow' key or the 'next' button. The tension is that all of them, the laptop, the tablet, the phone are the "same" thing but tuned in slightly different ways.