4 ms·

Sure, but so what?

notfromhere 9y ago
if NATO doesn't defend the Baltics the whole alliance falls apart.
dogma1138 9y ago
The baltics are effectively czechoslovakia. You can't decide who to go to war for under NATO, it's all or nothing. Not to mention that ssignaling to Russia that the US might not intervened under Article 5 is a good way to start WW3. NATO works because the fate of a the Baltics is equal to the fate of Germany. The problem is that Europe has enjoyed the umbrella that the US provides under NATO too long without owning to its own obligated defense commitments under the treaty. I don't understand why people are calling out the Trump administration because of this. Sec def Gates had much more damning things to say about NATO under Obama and the EU's unwillingness to commit its obligated military spending goes as back as Reagan.
- muninn_ 9y ago
  I don't really disagree, my larger point was that I question whether the US would go to war over the baltics, but I don't question that they would go to war over Germany. The alliance may fall apart if they didn't go to war over the baltics, but there is no question in my mind that, if instead of attacking the baltic, the Russians attacked Germany that the US would be full-on in Germany's defense.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    It definitely would because not honoring Article 5 means that the US loses its relevance in its entirety in the region leaving Europe for Russia if nothing else then purely in the geopolitical landscape for the taking.
    - muninn_ 9y ago
      No, it doesn't. There's a huge mess associated with Article 5, but not defending Lativa is not the same thing as unwilling to defend Germany, or France, or the UK, etc....
      - dogma1138 9y ago
        If article 5 is invoked and the US doesn't do anything then NATO is gone. After that US influence in the region is going to be pretty much gone. EU plotitians are going to be much more open to Russian world views since they will not gamble their security on US internal politics. The exact same thing happened in the Middle East under the previous administration moving Russia from a loud but mostly sidelined actor to the main stage.

Sure, but so what?

if NATO doesn't defend the Baltics the whole alliance falls apart.

The baltics are effectively czechoslovakia. You can't decide who to go to war for under NATO, it's all or nothing. Not to mention that ssignaling to Russia that the US might not intervened under Article 5 is a good way to start WW3. NATO works because the fate of a the Baltics is equal to the fate of Germany. The problem is that Europe has enjoyed the umbrella that the US provides under NATO too long without owning to its own obligated defense commitments under the treaty. I don't understand why people are calling out the Trump administration because of this. Sec def Gates had much more damning things to say about NATO under Obama and the EU's unwillingness to commit its obligated military spending goes as back as Reagan.

muninn_ 9y ago
I don't really disagree, my larger point was that I question whether the US would go to war over the baltics, but I don't question that they would go to war over Germany. The alliance may fall apart if they didn't go to war over the baltics, but there is no question in my mind that, if instead of attacking the baltic, the Russians attacked Germany that the US would be full-on in Germany's defense.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  It definitely would because not honoring Article 5 means that the US loses its relevance in its entirety in the region leaving Europe for Russia if nothing else then purely in the geopolitical landscape for the taking.
  - muninn_ 9y ago
    No, it doesn't. There's a huge mess associated with Article 5, but not defending Lativa is not the same thing as unwilling to defend Germany, or France, or the UK, etc....
    - dogma1138 9y ago
      If article 5 is invoked and the US doesn't do anything then NATO is gone. After that US influence in the region is going to be pretty much gone. EU plotitians are going to be much more open to Russian world views since they will not gamble their security on US internal politics. The exact same thing happened in the Middle East under the previous administration moving Russia from a loud but mostly sidelined actor to the main stage.