6 ms·

Working at Google - the first 6 months

49 points by frognibble 16y ago

davidw 16y ago
> Google likes to solve tough problems on a global scale. People work hard...and love it. Most nights I work late and eat dinner at Google. Last night there were at least 400 people eating dinner at 8:00PM. Larry Page was there too, sitting at the table next to me. This is not unusual. When you are achieving goals and being recognized for your work...it doesn't feel like work. Again, to use the New England Patriots analogy, you put everything you've got into it every single day, but when you are doing it alongside the best in the world, it is a privilege and doesn't seem like work at all. Ok, I can definitely see that. On the other hand... if I weren't home for dinner, my daughter would wonder where 'dada' was.
- deleted 16y ago
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- jbarham 16y ago
  Seconded. Being home for supper w/ wife and two-year-old son is the highlight of my day. Read a different way "Last night there were at least 400 people eating dinner at 8:00PM" means that there were at least 400 people who either don't have families or for whatever reason felt it was better to stay at the office than to be at home w/ their families. The novelty of eating in a company cafeteria wears off, the long-term grind of working for a company where there is pressure to put the company ahead of your personal life does not.
  - starkfist 16y ago
    "Last night there were at least 400 people eating dinner at 8:00PM" means that there were at least 400 people who either don't have families or for whatever reason felt it was better to stay at the office than to be at home w/ their families. Welcome to Silicon Valley.
  - danielrhodes 16y ago
    When you have a family and lots of outside obligations, you lose the ability to take risk and gain large rewards in favor of increased stability. It's not a matter of one being better than the other. These people work extremely hard and contribute in ways that they find meaningful. Nobody should be criticized for being dedicated.
    - jbarham 16y ago
      How is working for Google, one of the world's most profitable companies, taking a risk? I'm not averse to risk but I am skeptical that everyone working late at Google is doing so because they're having so much fun as "rock star" engineers that they can't wait to get back to work.
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      When you have a family that you love and enjoy you already have the large reward. Work you enjoy is icing on top of that. The reason you may seek less risk with family is that the upside is relatively small (it will always be dwarfed by family), and the downside is large (losing your home, putting financial stress on your family, etc..). But I agree, they shouldn't be criticized for being dedicated to their job. But I do think posts, like Don's, seem to implicitly criticize those people who aren't at the cafeteria at 8pm.
      - ddodge 16y ago
        Ken, There is NO implicit criticism of people who don't work nights, and none was intended. Sorry if you came away with that impression. Google is all about achievement...not which hours you choose to work. The fact is that most employees do not stay for dinner. Google people have different work schedules. Some come in early, some stay late, some work 9 to 5 at the office, and get back online at night after the kids go to bed. Some people work from home. There is no pressure to conform to some schedule. Google is like a college campus. There are people everywhere, all working different schedules. There is always someone around so you never feel alone. Don
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    Most of the Googlers I know with kids don't stay for dinner, or they'll grab dinner and go (which technically you're not supposed to do, but they work hard the rest of the day...) The 400+ people at the Googleplex at 8:00 PM is mostly a reflection of the relative youth of the employee base (median age: 28). When you're young and single, hanging out with friends for dinner certainly beats going home and eating alone.
    - ddodge 16y ago
      I totally agree. Most don't stay for dinner. Many go home, have dinner with their family, and get back on line from home later. Everyone is free to do what they need to do. There is no pressure from anyone. Google feels a lot like a college campus. Lots of people around at all hours of the day and night. People have different work schedules, but you never feel alone.
      - hugh3 16y ago
        Most don't stay for dinner. Many go home, have dinner with their family, and get back on line from home later. Does anyone work strict eight hour days, five days a week?
        nostrademons 16y ago
        I think there are some. I know some people who go home around 5:15, every day. I'm not entirely sure when they get in, but I think it's around 9:00, +- 15 minutes. I've been working pretty consistent 8 hour days lately, noon to 8. Granted, in my last project, I was often working 11-12 hour days + weekends. I think that's only typical if you're on a high profile project with a company-wide push to get it out the door, though. There are 20,000 Googlers; most of them are not on such projects.
- spotter 16y ago
  I'm with you. I'm younger but still, the idea of sitting at WORK at 8pm eating dinner next to a billionaire and countless early employee millionaires while making them all even richer sort of turns my god damn stomach.
  - mbenjaminsmith 16y ago
    I think that's a good litmus test. If a job at hot company xyz sounds more like 'wage slavery' than 'great career opportunity', you know you should be an entrepreneur. You, good sir, should be an entrepreneur.
- btilly 16y ago
  Each person has freedom to find their own balance. My kids are 2 and 5. And yes, I was at work last night at 9 PM. How horrible is that? However I got time with my kids in the morning, arrived around noon, and like having the freedom to commute at a time where I can avoid rush hour traffic.
- angstrom 16y ago
  As long as they're there by free will and not silent peer pressure, great for them. Otherwise, condolences.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    If there are that many people working late how can there not be a silent peer pressure to do so?
    - skybrian 16y ago
      Maybe they're not morning people? I sometimes get on a bad cycle of work late, stay up late, sleep in, and get into work at 11 the next day. It's not because anyone asked me to keep this schedule.
    - davidw 16y ago
      The "I can definitely see that" part of my comment was because I really can. I work well at that time of day and there are times when I would love to just keep cranking away. Maybe some of them, like btilly says, get there late. I could see that working: spend some time with the kid(s) in the morning and then work later.
awa 16y ago
Interesting to note that he starts of with saying he wasn't at Microsoft in 1985 and then talks about a bunch of similarities between Google of now and Microsoft of 1985.
- ddodge 16y ago
  Read carefully. I said people who were there (at Microsoft) in 1985 told me about it, and there are striking similarities. I know it is hard to imagine today that Microsoft was once like this...but they were. In a follow up post I might dive into how they lost that feeling. Personally, I think when the business people started outnumbering the engineering people...is when they started losing their way. Don
  - kqr2 16y ago
    But wasn't Microsoft's real success due to its business practices versus its technology? For example, it made key partnerships which they were able to leverage very effectively to gain market share.
    - inerte 16y ago
      Chicken and egg. How do you make key partnerships without great tech? Think about OEM customization, i18n/l10n, backwards compability (etc). If MS didn't know how to do these, history would be different.
      - enjo 16y ago
        Wasn't the entire foundation of the company built on a partnership for which literally no tech (owned by Microsoft at least) existed?
      - kqr2 16y ago
        Keep in mind the term "vaporware" was coined by a Microsoft engineer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware Microsoft was infamous for announcing products that they didn't have ready. This often discouraged corporations from buying competing products. In this case, business trumped technology.
adbge 16y ago
Google sounds more and more like a boys club lately. I think some of the employees need to come back down to earth and realize that not everyone at Google is a coding rockstar and there are people doing more important work than Google. Of course, I've never worked at Google, so maybe they all are coding rockstars and save the world on a daily basis. I find that thought a little unsettling though.
- angelbob 16y ago
  The "boys club" analogy doesn't end there. According to several of my female techy friends who have worked there, it's a pretty awful place to work if you're female, in terms of sexual discrimination. At least one of them experienced, consistently and repeatedly, behavior that she could easily have sued over despite multiple complaints to HR.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    One of the things I've learned is never report things like that to HR. Report them to the police. The job of HR is not to help you, the employee. It is to protect the company. The more credible your complaints to HR look, especially if there was some negligence in your management chain, the more they will try to damage your story or credibility. That's their job.
    - Jun8 16y ago
      That's awful! I hate HR, too, but to report what you perceive as harassment directly to the police seems so over the top as to be ridiculous.
      - hugh3 16y ago
        Unless it's actually, say, rape. In which case by all means bypass HR and go to the police. Though you should probably report it to HR as well.
    - dschobel 16y ago
kenjackson 16y ago
Sounds really really sales-pitchy. I'm sure its a great place to work, but when you first six months are all roses, it just sounds fake to me. Maybe it really is all roses, but then that wouldn't explain why some people leave for jobs that look like almost worse positions at other companies (e.g., Eric Tseng). Google reminds me of the rich kid who tries so hard to let you know how great it is to be rich. It's like, "kid, I just assumed being rich was pretty good, but the more you testify the more I think something is wrong with it".
- jonursenbach 16y ago
  Well he is a developer advocate/evangelist, of course it's going to sound really sales-pitchy.
  - csmeder 16y ago
    To work at Microsoft for the past few years and strongly evangelize it takes a certain kind of person. It means the person either is dishonest or looks at the company he works for with Rose Colored Goggles. I don't know enough about him to comment on the former but I bet its a lot of the latter.
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ojbyrne 16y ago
"It is the work life equivalent of playing for the New England Patriots and winning Super Bowls." Except its been 5 years since the Pats won a Super Bowl. Feels kind of the same.
myth_drannon 16y ago
Every time I think about Google, I remember Deepness in the sky/Vernor Vinge 's Emergent culture and how they were able to invent a brain device that created what they called Focus , device that induces an obsession with a single idea... of course the engineers are coming to Google voluntary, it's not like it enslaves them...
- Roboprog 16y ago
  Great book, by the way. "Emergents" -- as opposed to the "Qeng Ho" (sp?), who in contrast seemed more like a bunch of franchise owners* cooperating when they had common goals and/or to make some good trades? (and help a dispersed human civilization along here and there) * "franchise owner" in the sense of owning and operating a store associated with a broader brand.
zeynel1 16y ago
I would like to know how google compares with Apple rather than Microsoft. Apple is a different culture both from google and Microsoft yet it is a dynamic corporation that designs and markets new successful products efficiently and for profit. How does engineering culture in Apple differ from Google?
- smackfu 16y ago
  No one in Apple is allowed to talk about it, is one difference.
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    Well sometimes they can talk about it, but only in a language approved by Steve Jobs.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  One of my coworkers has roommates that work at Apple. In his words (roughly, heard secondhand): "The nice thing about Apple is that we actually have managers that know their shit telling us what to do." Apple's culture seems much more command & control oriented. They find experienced managers who care passionately about design, then put them in positions where they have both the responsibility and the authority to see that through. Then the individual workers stop at nothing to get every little detail right about the product. Google's culture is much more chaotic, "bubble-up". They find smart people, put them together, and say "Find something to work on." Then they do everything possible to support whatever ideas emerge from that. Google figures that eventually the market will separate the wheat from the chaff, the best ideas will win, and then they'll pour more resources into those. I think those differing approaches to product design show very clearly in the products they end up designing. Google sometimes creates brilliantly executed, innovative products that no manager would've thought of. And it often creates pure and utter dreck. Apple's approach results in uniformly beautiful, well-designed products, but they often miss out on opportunities where an awesome product isn't immediately obvious from current consumer desires.
arithmetic 16y ago
This is a shoddy sales pitch, at best. Remember his first post as soon as he left Msft titled "Thanks Microsoft, Hello Google" (http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2009/11/thanks-microsoft-hello-google.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2009/11/thank...). I'm all for talking about your past work experience, but that particular post just costed Don his credibility.

49 points by frognibble 16y ago

> Google likes to solve tough problems on a global scale. People work hard...and love it. Most nights I work late and eat dinner at Google. Last night there were at least 400 people eating dinner at 8:00PM. Larry Page was there too, sitting at the table next to me. This is not unusual. When you are achieving goals and being recognized for your work...it doesn't feel like work. Again, to use the New England Patriots analogy, you put everything you've got into it every single day, but when you are doing it alongside the best in the world, it is a privilege and doesn't seem like work at all. Ok, I can definitely see that. On the other hand... if I weren't home for dinner, my daughter would wonder where 'dada' was.

deleted 16y ago
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jbarham 16y ago
Seconded. Being home for supper w/ wife and two-year-old son is the highlight of my day. Read a different way "Last night there were at least 400 people eating dinner at 8:00PM" means that there were at least 400 people who either don't have families or for whatever reason felt it was better to stay at the office than to be at home w/ their families. The novelty of eating in a company cafeteria wears off, the long-term grind of working for a company where there is pressure to put the company ahead of your personal life does not.
- starkfist 16y ago
  "Last night there were at least 400 people eating dinner at 8:00PM" means that there were at least 400 people who either don't have families or for whatever reason felt it was better to stay at the office than to be at home w/ their families. Welcome to Silicon Valley.
- danielrhodes 16y ago
  When you have a family and lots of outside obligations, you lose the ability to take risk and gain large rewards in favor of increased stability. It's not a matter of one being better than the other. These people work extremely hard and contribute in ways that they find meaningful. Nobody should be criticized for being dedicated.
  - jbarham 16y ago
    How is working for Google, one of the world's most profitable companies, taking a risk? I'm not averse to risk but I am skeptical that everyone working late at Google is doing so because they're having so much fun as "rock star" engineers that they can't wait to get back to work.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    When you have a family that you love and enjoy you already have the large reward. Work you enjoy is icing on top of that. The reason you may seek less risk with family is that the upside is relatively small (it will always be dwarfed by family), and the downside is large (losing your home, putting financial stress on your family, etc..). But I agree, they shouldn't be criticized for being dedicated to their job. But I do think posts, like Don's, seem to implicitly criticize those people who aren't at the cafeteria at 8pm.
    - ddodge 16y ago
      Ken, There is NO implicit criticism of people who don't work nights, and none was intended. Sorry if you came away with that impression. Google is all about achievement...not which hours you choose to work. The fact is that most employees do not stay for dinner. Google people have different work schedules. Some come in early, some stay late, some work 9 to 5 at the office, and get back online at night after the kids go to bed. Some people work from home. There is no pressure to conform to some schedule. Google is like a college campus. There are people everywhere, all working different schedules. There is always someone around so you never feel alone. Don
- nostrademons 16y ago
  Most of the Googlers I know with kids don't stay for dinner, or they'll grab dinner and go (which technically you're not supposed to do, but they work hard the rest of the day...) The 400+ people at the Googleplex at 8:00 PM is mostly a reflection of the relative youth of the employee base (median age: 28). When you're young and single, hanging out with friends for dinner certainly beats going home and eating alone.
  - ddodge 16y ago
    I totally agree. Most don't stay for dinner. Many go home, have dinner with their family, and get back on line from home later. Everyone is free to do what they need to do. There is no pressure from anyone. Google feels a lot like a college campus. Lots of people around at all hours of the day and night. People have different work schedules, but you never feel alone.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      Most don't stay for dinner. Many go home, have dinner with their family, and get back on line from home later. Does anyone work strict eight hour days, five days a week?
      - nostrademons 16y ago
        I think there are some. I know some people who go home around 5:15, every day. I'm not entirely sure when they get in, but I think it's around 9:00, +- 15 minutes. I've been working pretty consistent 8 hour days lately, noon to 8. Granted, in my last project, I was often working 11-12 hour days + weekends. I think that's only typical if you're on a high profile project with a company-wide push to get it out the door, though. There are 20,000 Googlers; most of them are not on such projects.
spotter 16y ago
I'm with you. I'm younger but still, the idea of sitting at WORK at 8pm eating dinner next to a billionaire and countless early employee millionaires while making them all even richer sort of turns my god damn stomach.
- mbenjaminsmith 16y ago
  I think that's a good litmus test. If a job at hot company xyz sounds more like 'wage slavery' than 'great career opportunity', you know you should be an entrepreneur. You, good sir, should be an entrepreneur.
btilly 16y ago
Each person has freedom to find their own balance. My kids are 2 and 5. And yes, I was at work last night at 9 PM. How horrible is that? However I got time with my kids in the morning, arrived around noon, and like having the freedom to commute at a time where I can avoid rush hour traffic.
angstrom 16y ago
As long as they're there by free will and not silent peer pressure, great for them. Otherwise, condolences.
- hugh3 16y ago
  If there are that many people working late how can there not be a silent peer pressure to do so?
  - skybrian 16y ago
    Maybe they're not morning people? I sometimes get on a bad cycle of work late, stay up late, sleep in, and get into work at 11 the next day. It's not because anyone asked me to keep this schedule.
  - davidw 16y ago
    The "I can definitely see that" part of my comment was because I really can. I work well at that time of day and there are times when I would love to just keep cranking away. Maybe some of them, like btilly says, get there late. I could see that working: spend some time with the kid(s) in the morning and then work later.

awa 16y ago

Interesting to note that he starts of with saying he wasn't at Microsoft in 1985 and then talks about a bunch of similarities between Google of now and Microsoft of 1985.

ddodge 16y ago
Read carefully. I said people who were there (at Microsoft) in 1985 told me about it, and there are striking similarities. I know it is hard to imagine today that Microsoft was once like this...but they were. In a follow up post I might dive into how they lost that feeling. Personally, I think when the business people started outnumbering the engineering people...is when they started losing their way. Don
- kqr2 16y ago
  But wasn't Microsoft's real success due to its business practices versus its technology? For example, it made key partnerships which they were able to leverage very effectively to gain market share.
  - inerte 16y ago
    Chicken and egg. How do you make key partnerships without great tech? Think about OEM customization, i18n/l10n, backwards compability (etc). If MS didn't know how to do these, history would be different.
    - enjo 16y ago
      Wasn't the entire foundation of the company built on a partnership for which literally no tech (owned by Microsoft at least) existed?
    - kqr2 16y ago
      Keep in mind the term "vaporware" was coined by a Microsoft engineer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware Microsoft was infamous for announcing products that they didn't have ready. This often discouraged corporations from buying competing products. In this case, business trumped technology.

adbge 16y ago

Google sounds more and more like a boys club lately. I think some of the employees need to come back down to earth and realize that not everyone at Google is a coding rockstar and there are people doing more important work than Google. Of course, I've never worked at Google, so maybe they all are coding rockstars and save the world on a daily basis. I find that thought a little unsettling though.

angelbob 16y ago
The "boys club" analogy doesn't end there. According to several of my female techy friends who have worked there, it's a pretty awful place to work if you're female, in terms of sexual discrimination. At least one of them experienced, consistently and repeatedly, behavior that she could easily have sued over despite multiple complaints to HR.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  One of the things I've learned is never report things like that to HR. Report them to the police. The job of HR is not to help you, the employee. It is to protect the company. The more credible your complaints to HR look, especially if there was some negligence in your management chain, the more they will try to damage your story or credibility. That's their job.
  - Jun8 16y ago
    That's awful! I hate HR, too, but to report what you perceive as harassment directly to the police seems so over the top as to be ridiculous.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      Unless it's actually, say, rape. In which case by all means bypass HR and go to the police. Though you should probably report it to HR as well.
  - dschobel 16y ago

kenjackson 16y ago

Sounds really really sales-pitchy. I'm sure its a great place to work, but when you first six months are all roses, it just sounds fake to me. Maybe it really is all roses, but then that wouldn't explain why some people leave for jobs that look like almost worse positions at other companies (e.g., Eric Tseng). Google reminds me of the rich kid who tries so hard to let you know how great it is to be rich. It's like, "kid, I just assumed being rich was pretty good, but the more you testify the more I think something is wrong with it".

jonursenbach 16y ago
Well he is a developer advocate/evangelist, of course it's going to sound really sales-pitchy.
- csmeder 16y ago
  To work at Microsoft for the past few years and strongly evangelize it takes a certain kind of person. It means the person either is dishonest or looks at the company he works for with Rose Colored Goggles. I don't know enough about him to comment on the former but I bet its a lot of the latter.
deleted 16y ago
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ojbyrne 16y ago

"It is the work life equivalent of playing for the New England Patriots and winning Super Bowls." Except its been 5 years since the Pats won a Super Bowl. Feels kind of the same.

myth_drannon 16y ago

Every time I think about Google, I remember Deepness in the sky/Vernor Vinge 's Emergent culture and how they were able to invent a brain device that created what they called Focus , device that induces an obsession with a single idea... of course the engineers are coming to Google voluntary, it's not like it enslaves them...

Roboprog 16y ago
Great book, by the way. "Emergents" -- as opposed to the "Qeng Ho" (sp?), who in contrast seemed more like a bunch of franchise owners* cooperating when they had common goals and/or to make some good trades? (and help a dispersed human civilization along here and there) * "franchise owner" in the sense of owning and operating a store associated with a broader brand.

zeynel1 16y ago

I would like to know how google compares with Apple rather than Microsoft. Apple is a different culture both from google and Microsoft yet it is a dynamic corporation that designs and markets new successful products efficiently and for profit. How does engineering culture in Apple differ from Google?

smackfu 16y ago
No one in Apple is allowed to talk about it, is one difference.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  Well sometimes they can talk about it, but only in a language approved by Steve Jobs.
nostrademons 16y ago
One of my coworkers has roommates that work at Apple. In his words (roughly, heard secondhand): "The nice thing about Apple is that we actually have managers that know their shit telling us what to do." Apple's culture seems much more command & control oriented. They find experienced managers who care passionately about design, then put them in positions where they have both the responsibility and the authority to see that through. Then the individual workers stop at nothing to get every little detail right about the product. Google's culture is much more chaotic, "bubble-up". They find smart people, put them together, and say "Find something to work on." Then they do everything possible to support whatever ideas emerge from that. Google figures that eventually the market will separate the wheat from the chaff, the best ideas will win, and then they'll pour more resources into those. I think those differing approaches to product design show very clearly in the products they end up designing. Google sometimes creates brilliantly executed, innovative products that no manager would've thought of. And it often creates pure and utter dreck. Apple's approach results in uniformly beautiful, well-designed products, but they often miss out on opportunities where an awesome product isn't immediately obvious from current consumer desires.

arithmetic 16y ago

This is a shoddy sales pitch, at best. Remember his first post as soon as he left Msft titled "Thanks Microsoft, Hello Google" (http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2009/11/thanks-microsoft-hello-google.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2009/11/thank...). I'm all for talking about your past work experience, but that particular post just costed Don his credibility.