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"Cool" for me isn't somewhere that I can say anything I want without concern for how it affects others. Cool is inclusive.

Chris2048 9y ago
But that's a strawman, since I didn't say that. You talk of vague "inclusivity", and hyperbolic "say anything I want"; but the post specifically referred to "Calling someone a 'princess' for liking salads" - when are we going to be inclusive of differing opinions and forms of expression? Seems a very specific interpretational framework is being mandated here. Using rough language versus running off to HR when offended - I know who I'd prefer working with.
- nerdponx 9y ago
  There are so many other/better ways to question someone's taste, even in jest. This is also why I originally said it depends on the context. You can say it to a work buddy who you hang out with after hours. You can't say it to someone from another team who you don't know very well. Use your head.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    better according to who? If you retreat when pushed, they'll just keep pushing. The issue here isn't whether you offend someone, it's who should be sided with when it goes to HR.
    - watwut 9y ago
      Yeah, but when you make "salad princess" joke, you are the one pushing. And she is the one that has to either retreat or push back - either directly by humiliating you back or less directly through HR. If she pushes back and humiliates you back, would you be cool with it?
      - Chris2048 9y ago
        "Humiliate" in the same sense? Sure! But it's always possible to claim your offense is real. Pushing is using real authority to moderate a person's own language. Interpretation is subjective. HR is neither a nuanced or objective judge of semantics - they aren't even in the same ballpark as a direct response.
        watwut 9y ago
        I did not meant "humiliate" nor "would you be ok if she responded in playful nuanced way". I meant if she humiliated you back, really. After all, pleasant joking "humiliation" would not make you stop. I meant would you be ok if she really humiliated you. As you said, offense is semantic. Pushing back won't be comfortable to you. If she did that, would the teasing stop or would the group take your side and retaliated?
        Chris2048 9y ago
        Again, in the same way, Sure. "humiliated you back" implies it's humiliating in the first place, so I have no idea what standard you are applying. > If she did that, would the teasing stop or would the group take your side and retaliated? false choice. I don't know what you mean retaliate, anymore than I know what you mean "really humiliated". Maybe I'm thick skinned, but what do you imagine a coworker could say?
        watwut 9y ago
        > "humiliated you back" implies it's humiliating in the first place, so I have no idea what standard you are applying. I would find the princess salad comment hostile, unless there is context to mitigate that (we are good friends and in mutually teasing relationship). Meaning, I would see that as one of those situations when I need to respond more aggressively next time otherwise I risk to be picked on regularly. Not sure if "humiliating" is the right word, but princess is not the image I want to maintain in front of colleges or anyone. Someone not to be picked on is much more practical image. "I don't know what you mean retaliate, anymore than I know what you mean "really humiliated". I am less likely to come with the answer right away, but I would attempt to figure out answer ready for next time you pick on me. Most likely, I would just tell "go fuck off" or something else rude with the tone of voice that is as deep and unfriendly as can be. Other then that, I am not sure, I don't know you nor the whole situation, so it is hard to come up with something. Not a path for someone who considers it important to look like polite person all the time, but you gotta give up something. I think that this is where many women make mistake - they see aggressive response as something wrong and end up being constantly picked on. "Maybe I'm thick skinned, but what do you imagine a coworker could say?" That is part of the thing, right? You don't stick up with anything like that, you are mainstream and know that you are accepted by colleges. That gives you advantage in this bullshit. But mostly, I prefer more formal workplaces that are above this elementary school stuff.

Chris2048 9y ago

But that's a strawman, since I didn't say that. You talk of vague "inclusivity", and hyperbolic "say anything I want"; but the post specifically referred to "Calling someone a 'princess' for liking salads" - when are we going to be inclusive of differing opinions and forms of expression? Seems a very specific interpretational framework is being mandated here. Using rough language versus running off to HR when offended - I know who I'd prefer working with.

nerdponx 9y ago
There are so many other/better ways to question someone's taste, even in jest. This is also why I originally said it depends on the context. You can say it to a work buddy who you hang out with after hours. You can't say it to someone from another team who you don't know very well. Use your head.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  better according to who? If you retreat when pushed, they'll just keep pushing. The issue here isn't whether you offend someone, it's who should be sided with when it goes to HR.
  - watwut 9y ago
    Yeah, but when you make "salad princess" joke, you are the one pushing. And she is the one that has to either retreat or push back - either directly by humiliating you back or less directly through HR. If she pushes back and humiliates you back, would you be cool with it?
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      "Humiliate" in the same sense? Sure! But it's always possible to claim your offense is real. Pushing is using real authority to moderate a person's own language. Interpretation is subjective. HR is neither a nuanced or objective judge of semantics - they aren't even in the same ballpark as a direct response.
      - watwut 9y ago
        I did not meant "humiliate" nor "would you be ok if she responded in playful nuanced way". I meant if she humiliated you back, really. After all, pleasant joking "humiliation" would not make you stop. I meant would you be ok if she really humiliated you. As you said, offense is semantic. Pushing back won't be comfortable to you. If she did that, would the teasing stop or would the group take your side and retaliated?
        Chris2048 9y ago
        Again, in the same way, Sure. "humiliated you back" implies it's humiliating in the first place, so I have no idea what standard you are applying. > If she did that, would the teasing stop or would the group take your side and retaliated? false choice. I don't know what you mean retaliate, anymore than I know what you mean "really humiliated". Maybe I'm thick skinned, but what do you imagine a coworker could say?
        watwut 9y ago
        > "humiliated you back" implies it's humiliating in the first place, so I have no idea what standard you are applying. I would find the princess salad comment hostile, unless there is context to mitigate that (we are good friends and in mutually teasing relationship). Meaning, I would see that as one of those situations when I need to respond more aggressively next time otherwise I risk to be picked on regularly. Not sure if "humiliating" is the right word, but princess is not the image I want to maintain in front of colleges or anyone. Someone not to be picked on is much more practical image. "I don't know what you mean retaliate, anymore than I know what you mean "really humiliated". I am less likely to come with the answer right away, but I would attempt to figure out answer ready for next time you pick on me. Most likely, I would just tell "go fuck off" or something else rude with the tone of voice that is as deep and unfriendly as can be. Other then that, I am not sure, I don't know you nor the whole situation, so it is hard to come up with something. Not a path for someone who considers it important to look like polite person all the time, but you gotta give up something. I think that this is where many women make mistake - they see aggressive response as something wrong and end up being constantly picked on. "Maybe I'm thick skinned, but what do you imagine a coworker could say?" That is part of the thing, right? You don't stick up with anything like that, you are mainstream and know that you are accepted by colleges. That gives you advantage in this bullshit. But mostly, I prefer more formal workplaces that are above this elementary school stuff.