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I'd agree that someone who is on leave, and doesn't work, indeed"meets" expectations. It would be a problem only if everybody is expected to exceed expectations

I'd agree that someone who is on leave, and doesn't work, indeed"meets" expectations. It would be a problem only if everybody is expected to exceed expectations, but then all the evaluation process becomes, almost by definition, nonsensical.

jerrylives 9y ago
The point is that you are on paternity leave, taking care of a child on a company sanctioned policy. It's like being told you didn't work hard enough on your vacation - it doesn't make sense to set "work" expectations for a period in which one is absent from work.
Bartweiss 9y ago
I mean, I think the problem is evaluating performance at all for time not spent at work. If someone was on leave for part of a review period, that time shouldn't be evaluated. If they were on leave for most/all of it, that review should probably be skipped as null. Doing otherwise creates a misleading conflation between "meeting the expectation of leave" and "meeting the expectations of the job".
pflats 9y ago
That's ridiculous. Leave is leave; it's an employee's right that's offered in law or in their contract, and they should not be punished in any way for taking advantage of it. If the employee would otherwise exceed expectations and took paternity leave, then they still exceed expectations. If they were hired in March and worked for 40 weeks, they would not be penalized for failing to work in January or February. Leave should be handled the same way. If the employee was not professional about taking leave (didn't give any notice, did not work with colleagues to organize coverage of his tasks, etc.) then things are different. Similarly, if they promised to do something while on leave and didn't, then that would be an issue.
- zeveb 9y ago
  > Leave is leave; it's an employee's right that's offered in law or in their contract, and they should not be punished in any way for taking advantage of it. Being rated as someone who meets expectations is not a punishment. Certainly, one has the right to exercise one's rights, but one also has a duty to acknowledge that they impact others. Someone who takes paternity leave will, mutatis mutandis, achieve less than someone who does not; someone who is on leave for an entire review period and does nothing related to work cannot fairly be said to exceed expectations.
  - MichaelGG 9y ago
    >Being rated as someone who meets expectations is not a punishment. Is that true? I seem to recall a scene from Office Space and flair about this... Seems like they shouldn't include leave in the review at all and only review when they're working.
  - feedjoelpie 9y ago
    > Being rated as someone who meets expectations is not a punishment. On a scale of 1, 2, and 3, where each of these confers different privileges, when I knock you down from a 3 to a 2 specifically because of X, I am punishing you for X. The corporate words tied to the ratings are not magical.
Chris2048 9y ago
Isn't exceeds like getting a bonus? You still want bonus while on paternity? I thought only legal requirement is base rate and expected payments - which a bonus is not?
- krzyk 9y ago
  As others have wrote, paternity is like a vacation. It's time off work, you can't be evaluated on that time, it's like it doesn't exists for evaluation. So if you exceeded expectations a day before taking paternity you still do the day you are back.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    I wouldn't expect a bonus on vacation either. It depends on what the rating is used for.

jerrylives 9y ago

The point is that you are on paternity leave, taking care of a child on a company sanctioned policy. It's like being told you didn't work hard enough on your vacation - it doesn't make sense to set "work" expectations for a period in which one is absent from work.

Bartweiss 9y ago

I mean, I think the problem is evaluating performance at all for time not spent at work. If someone was on leave for part of a review period, that time shouldn't be evaluated. If they were on leave for most/all of it, that review should probably be skipped as null. Doing otherwise creates a misleading conflation between "meeting the expectation of leave" and "meeting the expectations of the job".

pflats 9y ago

That's ridiculous. Leave is leave; it's an employee's right that's offered in law or in their contract, and they should not be punished in any way for taking advantage of it. If the employee would otherwise exceed expectations and took paternity leave, then they still exceed expectations. If they were hired in March and worked for 40 weeks, they would not be penalized for failing to work in January or February. Leave should be handled the same way. If the employee was not professional about taking leave (didn't give any notice, did not work with colleagues to organize coverage of his tasks, etc.) then things are different. Similarly, if they promised to do something while on leave and didn't, then that would be an issue.

zeveb 9y ago
> Leave is leave; it's an employee's right that's offered in law or in their contract, and they should not be punished in any way for taking advantage of it. Being rated as someone who meets expectations is not a punishment. Certainly, one has the right to exercise one's rights, but one also has a duty to acknowledge that they impact others. Someone who takes paternity leave will, mutatis mutandis, achieve less than someone who does not; someone who is on leave for an entire review period and does nothing related to work cannot fairly be said to exceed expectations.
- MichaelGG 9y ago
  >Being rated as someone who meets expectations is not a punishment. Is that true? I seem to recall a scene from Office Space and flair about this... Seems like they shouldn't include leave in the review at all and only review when they're working.
- feedjoelpie 9y ago
  > Being rated as someone who meets expectations is not a punishment. On a scale of 1, 2, and 3, where each of these confers different privileges, when I knock you down from a 3 to a 2 specifically because of X, I am punishing you for X. The corporate words tied to the ratings are not magical.

Chris2048 9y ago

Isn't exceeds like getting a bonus? You still want bonus while on paternity? I thought only legal requirement is base rate and expected payments - which a bonus is not?

krzyk 9y ago
As others have wrote, paternity is like a vacation. It's time off work, you can't be evaluated on that time, it's like it doesn't exists for evaluation. So if you exceeded expectations a day before taking paternity you still do the day you are back.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  I wouldn't expect a bonus on vacation either. It depends on what the rating is used for.