6 ms·

There is (currently) a two-year EU-mandated warranty, Apple was even taken to court for not emphasizing this enough when selling AppleCare.

by sambe 9y ago

blowski 9y ago
They fixed the logic board of my 3 year old Macbook Pro. They quibbled at first, but agreed to do it free of charge after I quoted the EU legislation.
- pc86 9y ago
  I'm confused, you quoted the 2-year support requirement and they then fixed your 3-year old laptop?
  - DamnYuppie 9y ago
    It is possible that it could be three years old but they had purchased it new and owned it less than 2 years. Just means that particular one sat in inventory for awhile.
  - blowski 9y ago
    The legislation doesn't have a fixed period, it provides a vague 'reasonable use for a reasonable period of time' type clause. This was a £1700 laptop, so I had a right to expect it to last longer than 3 years, which was supported by claims on Apple's website. Therefore, Apple either has to say "our laptops are only good for three years", or say that particular laptop was defective and fix it.
    - dahauns 9y ago
      > The [EU] legislation doesn't have a fixed period. Sure does: 2 years. http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar...
      - blowski 9y ago
        You are right! It's the UK implementation of the law that's more fuzzy.
        AlphaSite 9y ago
        The uk implementation is 4/5 years depending on your region.
  - germanier 9y ago
    Some countries, including the UK, have longer requirements in national law.
jhasse 9y ago
Do you know since when it's two-years? Apple's warranty has been (still is?) only one year in Germany IIRC.
- germanier 9y ago
  For a long time. Note that there is a difference between the manufacturer's warranty (voluntary) and the seller's warranty (two years mandatory, "Gewährleistung" in German). When Apple talks about their warranty they mean the former. They even have a page outlining the difference: https://www.apple.com/de/legal/statutory-warranty/ https://www.apple.com/de/legal/statutory-warranty/
  - Kurtz79 9y ago
    "For further information please contact the seller" It is kind of cheeky, since in most cases for Apple products, the seller is also Apple.
iaskwhy 9y ago
Relevant: https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar... I still don't understand how these make sense together...
- Kurtz79 9y ago
  It is perfectly clear to me, in the very link you have posted: "This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right. National rules in your country may give you extra protection: however, any deviation from EU rules must always be in the consumer's best interest." (which is the case of UK law).
  - iaskwhy 9y ago
    From your reply I understand you didn't notice the second link, probably due to my bad formatting. Compare your analysis of the first link with what Apple states in the second. I don't understand how they can say it.
    - Kurtz79 9y ago
      I saw the link, but I thought your issue was with the 2/6 year thing. I still don't see any problem. Apple states that you get 1 year of "Apple" warranty, which allows you to get your product serviced by Apple, at no cost, independently of where you bought it. Beyond that date UK law will apply, but since it applies to the seller, and not the manufacturer, they say to contact the seller (as I said in another post, a bit cheekily, since they will be also the seller in many cases). Unless of course you buy Apple Care, that will allow the same level of service as the 1 year warranty...
kilburn 9y ago
Notice that this only applies to B2C transactions. Company-bought products do not have that protection.
lloeki 9y ago
Detail worth knowing: under the EU warranty the first year is covered by the manufacturer, the second by the reseller. If you buy a MacBook outside an Apple Store, after the first year you're supposed to bring it back to the place you bought it. There is even a difference between ordering it online through apple.com and buying it at the brick and mortar Apple Store as those are legally not the same. In practice though I have never had a problem having it fixed on the spot at an Apple Store but this is mostly because Apple cares about their customers.
- merb 9y ago
  plain wrong. there is a 2-year warranty within 6 months the seller needs to actually prove that it worked correct. after that you (buyer) need to prove it. there is __never__ a warranty (under law, the manufacturer can make a special guarantee like apple care of course) between the manufacturer and the buyer (at least in the eu and might change if seller == manufacturer) the warranty is always between the _seller_ and the _buyer_. if the seller is something like amazon than you give your defective product back to amazon (amazon than of course has the same warranty between his seller/manufacturer). b2b is the same (but also has some special rules and might be (more) country dependant). ( Source: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar... German EU LAW: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:31999L0044 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX... (99/44/EG) ) Edit: Well the most important fact of course is that there is no "eu law" there are just policies that the countries than can enforce/make a law out of it (http://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-making-process/overview-law-making-process/applying-eu-law_en http://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-making-process/overview-law...) well european can than make claims against the country, but sometimes they even fail to do that.
  - detaro 9y ago
    Of course there can be a manufacturer warranty, there just isn't a legal requirement for one (and it can have rules like "talk to the dealer if you bought it recently, we cover you only when you can't go through them anymore")
fulafel 9y ago
Many EU countries have protections stronger than this. Eg after 2 years you might have a right to compensation proportional to expected product life.

There is (currently) a two-year EU-mandated warranty, Apple was even taken to court for not emphasizing this enough when selling AppleCare.

by sambe 9y ago

There is (currently) a two-year EU-mandated warranty, Apple was even taken to court for not emphasizing this enough when selling AppleCare.

blowski 9y ago

They fixed the logic board of my 3 year old Macbook Pro. They quibbled at first, but agreed to do it free of charge after I quoted the EU legislation.

pc86 9y ago
I'm confused, you quoted the 2-year support requirement and they then fixed your 3-year old laptop?
- DamnYuppie 9y ago
  It is possible that it could be three years old but they had purchased it new and owned it less than 2 years. Just means that particular one sat in inventory for awhile.
- blowski 9y ago
  The legislation doesn't have a fixed period, it provides a vague 'reasonable use for a reasonable period of time' type clause. This was a £1700 laptop, so I had a right to expect it to last longer than 3 years, which was supported by claims on Apple's website. Therefore, Apple either has to say "our laptops are only good for three years", or say that particular laptop was defective and fix it.
  - dahauns 9y ago
    > The [EU] legislation doesn't have a fixed period. Sure does: 2 years. http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar...
    - blowski 9y ago
      You are right! It's the UK implementation of the law that's more fuzzy.
      - AlphaSite 9y ago
        The uk implementation is 4/5 years depending on your region.
- germanier 9y ago
  Some countries, including the UK, have longer requirements in national law.

jhasse 9y ago

Do you know since when it's two-years? Apple's warranty has been (still is?) only one year in Germany IIRC.

germanier 9y ago
For a long time. Note that there is a difference between the manufacturer's warranty (voluntary) and the seller's warranty (two years mandatory, "Gewährleistung" in German). When Apple talks about their warranty they mean the former. They even have a page outlining the difference: https://www.apple.com/de/legal/statutory-warranty/ https://www.apple.com/de/legal/statutory-warranty/
- Kurtz79 9y ago
  "For further information please contact the seller" It is kind of cheeky, since in most cases for Apple products, the seller is also Apple.

iaskwhy 9y ago

Relevant: https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar... I still don't understand how these make sense together...

Kurtz79 9y ago
It is perfectly clear to me, in the very link you have posted: "This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right. National rules in your country may give you extra protection: however, any deviation from EU rules must always be in the consumer's best interest." (which is the case of UK law).
- iaskwhy 9y ago
  From your reply I understand you didn't notice the second link, probably due to my bad formatting. Compare your analysis of the first link with what Apple states in the second. I don't understand how they can say it.
  - Kurtz79 9y ago
    I saw the link, but I thought your issue was with the 2/6 year thing. I still don't see any problem. Apple states that you get 1 year of "Apple" warranty, which allows you to get your product serviced by Apple, at no cost, independently of where you bought it. Beyond that date UK law will apply, but since it applies to the seller, and not the manufacturer, they say to contact the seller (as I said in another post, a bit cheekily, since they will be also the seller in many cases). Unless of course you buy Apple Care, that will allow the same level of service as the 1 year warranty...

kilburn 9y ago

Notice that this only applies to B2C transactions. Company-bought products do not have that protection.

lloeki 9y ago

Detail worth knowing: under the EU warranty the first year is covered by the manufacturer, the second by the reseller. If you buy a MacBook outside an Apple Store, after the first year you're supposed to bring it back to the place you bought it. There is even a difference between ordering it online through apple.com and buying it at the brick and mortar Apple Store as those are legally not the same. In practice though I have never had a problem having it fixed on the spot at an Apple Store but this is mostly because Apple cares about their customers.

merb 9y ago
plain wrong. there is a 2-year warranty within 6 months the seller needs to actually prove that it worked correct. after that you (buyer) need to prove it. there is __never__ a warranty (under law, the manufacturer can make a special guarantee like apple care of course) between the manufacturer and the buyer (at least in the eu and might change if seller == manufacturer) the warranty is always between the _seller_ and the _buyer_. if the seller is something like amazon than you give your defective product back to amazon (amazon than of course has the same warranty between his seller/manufacturer). b2b is the same (but also has some special rules and might be (more) country dependant). ( Source: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guar... German EU LAW: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:31999L0044 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX... (99/44/EG) ) Edit: Well the most important fact of course is that there is no "eu law" there are just policies that the countries than can enforce/make a law out of it (http://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-making-process/overview-law-making-process/applying-eu-law_en http://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-making-process/overview-law...) well european can than make claims against the country, but sometimes they even fail to do that.
- detaro 9y ago
  Of course there can be a manufacturer warranty, there just isn't a legal requirement for one (and it can have rules like "talk to the dealer if you bought it recently, we cover you only when you can't go through them anymore")

fulafel 9y ago

Many EU countries have protections stronger than this. Eg after 2 years you might have a right to compensation proportional to expected product life.