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> I seriously doubt that most people today would feel like someone with a 2nd grade education or even an 8th grade education deserves a job as they are, without

by dvdhnt 9y ago

> I seriously doubt that most people today would feel like someone with a 2nd grade education or even an 8th grade education deserves a job as they are, without first getting more education. Speak for yourself, cowboy. It's ironic, considering how affectionate HN claims to be towards "disruption" and the many of us who have learned by doing, that this comment exists here. We should not make arbitrary judgements as to what someone else deserves, especially in regards to feeding his or her family, by applying our own sensibilities so broadly.

malandrew 9y ago
No one, including everyone on HN, self taught or otherwise, "deserves" a job. Jobs are earned. You need to demonstrate that you can provide value to someone else directly (freelance) or to someone else's value producing firm (employment). The exchange of value (goods and services for goods, services or a tool that can be exchanged for either, money) is the foundation for why jobs exist in the first place. Without the exchange of value, the only job that exists is providing for yourself.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  Opportunities for less skilled workers have been dwindling, though. Not because the job isn't being done, but because the work has been shipped overseas so the rich could increase their profits. It's not all due to automation. If a society does not provide an individual the potential to live a comfortable life, the individual has no incentive to help that society.
- true_tuna 9y ago
  Your choice of vocabulary creates a false choice and a logic trap. Please consider some re-framing. Everyone deserves to be part of society. Everyone ought to have the chance to contribute to the extent they can. No one deserves to be thrown away and forgotten. Example: My wife's uncle can't hold a job and requires assistance for basic life tasks like figuring out how to live on his own. He wakes up everyday at five, takes the bus to the hospital and works as a (volunteer) greeter. He is not capable of a lot of tasks you'd associate with the idea of a job, but the work he does benefits society (makes the world better) it also benefits him to be able to give back. Have you ever walked into a place and had no idea what to do next? Have you ever benefited from someone calm and welcoming who provided a quick hello and simple directions? Have you ever felt lost and just needed a human to help the littlest bit? There's room for a lot more humanity in the world I see around me. I don't know if there's strictly a financial need, but it would sure make the world a better place. But back to my uncle by marriage: His work and his maintenance of basic needs are decoupled. I would argue that he deserves both. I don't know what you deserve or what you've earned or the relationship between the two. Let's just remember not to throw people away as we plan the future we'll all live inside.
  - malandrew 9y ago
    deserves to be part of society != deserves a job A job implies that someone somewhere is paying for that job to exist. In a free society, you can't make it compulsory for someone to pay another individual to do work that isn't valuable to the person doing the paying.

by dvdhnt 9y ago

malandrew 9y ago

No one, including everyone on HN, self taught or otherwise, "deserves" a job. Jobs are earned. You need to demonstrate that you can provide value to someone else directly (freelance) or to someone else's value producing firm (employment). The exchange of value (goods and services for goods, services or a tool that can be exchanged for either, money) is the foundation for why jobs exist in the first place. Without the exchange of value, the only job that exists is providing for yourself.

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
Opportunities for less skilled workers have been dwindling, though. Not because the job isn't being done, but because the work has been shipped overseas so the rich could increase their profits. It's not all due to automation. If a society does not provide an individual the potential to live a comfortable life, the individual has no incentive to help that society.
true_tuna 9y ago
Your choice of vocabulary creates a false choice and a logic trap. Please consider some re-framing. Everyone deserves to be part of society. Everyone ought to have the chance to contribute to the extent they can. No one deserves to be thrown away and forgotten. Example: My wife's uncle can't hold a job and requires assistance for basic life tasks like figuring out how to live on his own. He wakes up everyday at five, takes the bus to the hospital and works as a (volunteer) greeter. He is not capable of a lot of tasks you'd associate with the idea of a job, but the work he does benefits society (makes the world better) it also benefits him to be able to give back. Have you ever walked into a place and had no idea what to do next? Have you ever benefited from someone calm and welcoming who provided a quick hello and simple directions? Have you ever felt lost and just needed a human to help the littlest bit? There's room for a lot more humanity in the world I see around me. I don't know if there's strictly a financial need, but it would sure make the world a better place. But back to my uncle by marriage: His work and his maintenance of basic needs are decoupled. I would argue that he deserves both. I don't know what you deserve or what you've earned or the relationship between the two. Let's just remember not to throw people away as we plan the future we'll all live inside.
- malandrew 9y ago
  deserves to be part of society != deserves a job A job implies that someone somewhere is paying for that job to exist. In a free society, you can't make it compulsory for someone to pay another individual to do work that isn't valuable to the person doing the paying.