4 ms·

They are still using the SurfaceDock with the SurfaceConnect Cable: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/accessories/surface-dock https://www.microsoft.com/e

They are still using the SurfaceDock with the SurfaceConnect Cable: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/accessories/surface-dock https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/accessories/surface-... , which does basically the same as USB-C. In an era when even Apple is rumored (and even if false, still plausible) to be switching to USB-C for the iPhone, Microsoft still tries to force a proprietary connector. Didn't they learn anything from IE? Even if it's good for them for a while, it'll be their demise not following standars and thus locking thenselves out of everything.

eb0la 9y ago
Looks more complicated that it sounds. MSFT already did the job of sourcing cables, connectors, and power supplies for all their surface line for the next XXX years (where XXX is the time they're commited to support all their hardware products). Switching to USB-C from the bussiness perspective would be a great expense... and would involve higher price tag.
- franciscop 9y ago
  That is what I mean, it's basically a similar situation to 2005's IE. From the business perspective it wouldn't have made sense to support standards and would have involved a higher price tag. What this means is now people (those who buy an extra $200 device) will be happy for a while until their devices start to be incompatible or work slower than the competition who have a single cable type for everything. Then they will resent the brand and thus not buy again. Of course totally my opinion.
  - nailer 9y ago
    I like a single magnetic cable that does power and data. Until there's some open connector that does that [1] I'm happy to keep using the excellent Surface Dock cables. They could add USB C, but I still have more USB A devices, and I suspect others do too. [1] USB C isn't magnetic, and the fake 'magnetic USB C' is just an adaptor and doesn't do data.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- zghst 9y ago
  Good point, however this whole device line is an experiment itself. Realistically, I decline to entertain Microsoft is risking building these devices in a declining market to make a buck. Their approach, especially with the marketing, imagery, the counterpoints to Mac (pretty much imitating Apple) all points to constructing an image, instilling consumer confidence (and displaying a lot of ego). The deeper purpose of these devices prevail, even if they don't sell, what they bet on returns value. They could've started a low cost evolution on a single device instead of handicapping the whole Surface line. Now it has this whole funk of "no USB-C" all over it and it increases the cost of when they upgrade the whole line. And seeing as Surface is experimental (not core to MS, they would shutter it rather defend if it goes south), I doubt that they bought an overwhelming amount of cables, connectors, etc., I think it has more to do with a slower product development cycle due to politics.
chrismorgan 9y ago
From what I’ve seen, USB-C is a disaster. The ports and cables all have to support specific profiles, which are just getting more and more complicated, for specific features to work, and there is no visual indication at all of this. If you got a cheap cable (which people will do), you may suddenly find that maybe charging doesn’t work. Or maybe it melts. Or maybe it doesn’t transfer data. Or maybe using it for a video signal doesn’t work. There is no way of telling without trying it. USB-C just isn’t popular enough yet to have crashed and burned (though even after that it’ll still be popular for ages for want of an alternative). I have a Surface Book (the hardware was good enough to get me to switch from Linux, without ever actually having seen one), and the Surface cable is marvellous. Magnets are awesome, and the Surface Book is probably the most carefully magnetically-designed computer hardware. At work I have a Dock and I pretty much just put the Book on the desk by the connector and it jumps into place and my external monitors connect. And removing it, really easy and it can’t go wrong. The whole thing is really, really nice.
- nrki 9y ago
  Sure...except you have to buy a $200 dock to connect it to anything. Why can't I buy a $40 (or Chinese equivalent for $20) adapter to connect it to things? Why isn't there a pin-out or open standard? I know the magnetic factor would be a problem for this use-case - it would often be too "heavy" for the magnets.
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    I got my dock for about $70. Presumably if you shop around a bit, you can manage to do something similar. I haven't seen a full dock, but I have seen off-brand SurfaceConnect chargers.
  - apapli 9y ago
    I bought a Kensington dock, I think it is the model I linked to below, but I paid way less for it on amazon. Works great. https://www.kensington.com/au/au/4491/33972/sd3500v-universal-usb-30-dual-docking-station https://www.kensington.com/au/au/4491/33972/sd3500v-universa...
zghst 9y ago
I assume it was a combination of limited engineering expertise AND Microsoft's tendency of being a late adapter due to its business customer base. No matter how hard they try, little things like this show Microsoft's competitive handicap.
passive 9y ago
Every laptop in existence, up until quite recently, used a proprietary power connector. The fact that Surface also uses it as a dock connector doesn't erase this fact. But it does point to the fact that many of us have such a dock, and are very happy to not have to buy a new one to use with our new Surface Pros. It also won't hurt that our old power adapters should still work. One particular gamble of the Surface line was that it relies on accessories to really meet your needs. Microsoft has done a commendable job in this area, allowing me to "upgrade" my Surface Pro 3 with a new keyboard and pen, and now allowing me to continue using all my accessories with the latest device. I agree they have to break compatibility at some point, but I don't think there's much value yet in doing so. Maybe in a year or so, USB-C will be standardized and reliable enough to really make it advantageous to use as a power supply for all my devices. But it's not there yet.

eb0la 9y ago

Looks more complicated that it sounds. MSFT already did the job of sourcing cables, connectors, and power supplies for all their surface line for the next XXX years (where XXX is the time they're commited to support all their hardware products). Switching to USB-C from the bussiness perspective would be a great expense... and would involve higher price tag.

franciscop 9y ago
That is what I mean, it's basically a similar situation to 2005's IE. From the business perspective it wouldn't have made sense to support standards and would have involved a higher price tag. What this means is now people (those who buy an extra $200 device) will be happy for a while until their devices start to be incompatible or work slower than the competition who have a single cable type for everything. Then they will resent the brand and thus not buy again. Of course totally my opinion.
- nailer 9y ago
  I like a single magnetic cable that does power and data. Until there's some open connector that does that [1] I'm happy to keep using the excellent Surface Dock cables. They could add USB C, but I still have more USB A devices, and I suspect others do too. [1] USB C isn't magnetic, and the fake 'magnetic USB C' is just an adaptor and doesn't do data.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
zghst 9y ago
Good point, however this whole device line is an experiment itself. Realistically, I decline to entertain Microsoft is risking building these devices in a declining market to make a buck. Their approach, especially with the marketing, imagery, the counterpoints to Mac (pretty much imitating Apple) all points to constructing an image, instilling consumer confidence (and displaying a lot of ego). The deeper purpose of these devices prevail, even if they don't sell, what they bet on returns value. They could've started a low cost evolution on a single device instead of handicapping the whole Surface line. Now it has this whole funk of "no USB-C" all over it and it increases the cost of when they upgrade the whole line. And seeing as Surface is experimental (not core to MS, they would shutter it rather defend if it goes south), I doubt that they bought an overwhelming amount of cables, connectors, etc., I think it has more to do with a slower product development cycle due to politics.

chrismorgan 9y ago

From what I’ve seen, USB-C is a disaster. The ports and cables all have to support specific profiles, which are just getting more and more complicated, for specific features to work, and there is no visual indication at all of this. If you got a cheap cable (which people will do), you may suddenly find that maybe charging doesn’t work. Or maybe it melts. Or maybe it doesn’t transfer data. Or maybe using it for a video signal doesn’t work. There is no way of telling without trying it. USB-C just isn’t popular enough yet to have crashed and burned (though even after that it’ll still be popular for ages for want of an alternative). I have a Surface Book (the hardware was good enough to get me to switch from Linux, without ever actually having seen one), and the Surface cable is marvellous. Magnets are awesome, and the Surface Book is probably the most carefully magnetically-designed computer hardware. At work I have a Dock and I pretty much just put the Book on the desk by the connector and it jumps into place and my external monitors connect. And removing it, really easy and it can’t go wrong. The whole thing is really, really nice.

nrki 9y ago
Sure...except you have to buy a $200 dock to connect it to anything. Why can't I buy a $40 (or Chinese equivalent for $20) adapter to connect it to things? Why isn't there a pin-out or open standard? I know the magnetic factor would be a problem for this use-case - it would often be too "heavy" for the magnets.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  I got my dock for about $70. Presumably if you shop around a bit, you can manage to do something similar. I haven't seen a full dock, but I have seen off-brand SurfaceConnect chargers.
- apapli 9y ago
  I bought a Kensington dock, I think it is the model I linked to below, but I paid way less for it on amazon. Works great. https://www.kensington.com/au/au/4491/33972/sd3500v-universal-usb-30-dual-docking-station https://www.kensington.com/au/au/4491/33972/sd3500v-universa...

zghst 9y ago

I assume it was a combination of limited engineering expertise AND Microsoft's tendency of being a late adapter due to its business customer base. No matter how hard they try, little things like this show Microsoft's competitive handicap.

passive 9y ago

Every laptop in existence, up until quite recently, used a proprietary power connector. The fact that Surface also uses it as a dock connector doesn't erase this fact. But it does point to the fact that many of us have such a dock, and are very happy to not have to buy a new one to use with our new Surface Pros. It also won't hurt that our old power adapters should still work. One particular gamble of the Surface line was that it relies on accessories to really meet your needs. Microsoft has done a commendable job in this area, allowing me to "upgrade" my Surface Pro 3 with a new keyboard and pen, and now allowing me to continue using all my accessories with the latest device. I agree they have to break compatibility at some point, but I don't think there's much value yet in doing so. Maybe in a year or so, USB-C will be standardized and reliable enough to really make it advantageous to use as a power supply for all my devices. But it's not there yet.