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> Everyone seems to be discussing UBI and largely ignoring the fact that even if you cut everyone a check for some kind of basic income, if we don't solve some

> Everyone seems to be discussing UBI and largely ignoring the fact that even if you cut everyone a check for some kind of basic income, if we don't solve some of our housing issues, you will still see growing numbers of people either homeless or crammed together like sardines in a space not intended to hold that many people. And you seem to miss the fact that with UBI you have no incentive to live and stay in an expensive area. For the deposit amount on an average house where I live I would cover 80% of the cash price of a bigger house country side. But you know, I'd have no work. The problem is not housing, the problem is cramming all the work in cities. My last 3 jobs could've been done remotely, I asked and was always denied even while offering to take a pay cut. I and many like me despise living in cities, we do not live there by choice. I've slightly moved out of a big one (London) but still live/work in the outer rim where housing is a dream far away, even on a way above average salary. Give me UBI and I quit my job to settle country side tomorrow, so would my wife. So would a few of my colleagues.

dagw 9y ago
Give me UBI and I quit my job to settle country side tomorrow, so would my wife. So would a few of my colleagues. If you're a halfway skilled programmer you can scrape together the equivalent of what you'd get on any sort of realistic UBI doing small freelance jobs while living in the country side.
- geon 9y ago
  And going freelance is scary without some kind of economical safety net. Like ubi.
  - bicubic 9y ago
    Bingo. All of these 'but you can work remotely' suggestions are non starters to anyone who isn't already relatively wealthy, because they carry immense risk. If there was a serious safety net that guaranteed a decent quality of life, a significant portion of people would be taking on those options and leave the city centers.
    - pnutjam 9y ago
      True, it's one thing to convince your employer to let you work remotely. It's a totally different thing to convince a new employer to hire you remotely. I'm leaving the midwest because there are too few opportunities for the work I do. I'll be fighting it out in NY soon.
- Pica_soO 9y ago
  Not worth the people you have to put up with.
flexie 9y ago
> And you seem to miss the fact that with UBI you have no incentive to live and stay in an expensive area. Like many people here on HN, I can work from anywhere with electricity, Internet and decent cell phone coverage. But I still strongly prefer a bigger city, and I even prefer to be close to the city center, not out in suburbia. The reasons are many: - close to the city center I can chose between some of the best schools in the country for my kids. Outside the city center, I would have to chose a mediocre school. In the cuntryside, I would have to have to go with whatever is there - I like going out with my wife. In the city we can chose between all kinds of cuisines, cafes and bars. In a village, we would be lucky to find a pub with fries. In suburbia that would be a strip mall. - Shopping in easy in the city center. Whether you like it or not, you need to do groceries on a daily basis and to buy clothes etc every now and then, and this is far easier when you live in the city. - I like to walk for things (walk my kids to school, walk to do groceries, or just walk for the sake of it). Curiously, I find that this is easier in the city center with sidewalks and parks than in the countryside, where I would walk in the side of a highway or road. - In the city center I can do sports (tennis, soccer). Yes, I might find that option in the countryside or in suburbia, but in the city I can chose between 10 different teams, venues etc. - I like people. There are many more people in the cities, especially younger people. - I like to travel. I can take the metro to the airport in the city and visit hundreds of places within a a few hours of flight. Driving 2 hours to the nearest local airport to transfer to a bigger airport would kill that. I live far from my family and friends. They would visit much less if I didn't live near an international airport. What I am trying to say is that I think nowadays people live in the city for many other reasons than work.
- kwhitefoot 9y ago
  I think Mikushi's point would be that UBI gives both of you greater freedom to choose. It would probably reduce inner city housing costs a little as some of the people who currently are there only because they have no other way of getting an income decide to take their labour elsewhere where they can get more value for their contribution..
  - wickawic 9y ago
driverdan 9y ago
> Give me UBI and I quit my job to settle country side tomorrow, so would my wife. So would a few of my colleagues. That's one of the problems with UBI. It has a negative impact on productivity which is bad for society.
- wishinghand 9y ago
  They didn't explicitly say it but since earlier in the comment they mentioned looking for remote work, I imagine they'd still search for it after they move. The key here is they wouldn't have to wait for the job first.
Mz 9y ago
And you seem to miss the fact that with UBI you have no incentive to live and stay in an expensive area. I am homeless. I also have portable income. I have already used that fact to move someplace cheaper. That failed to get me back into housing. I plan to move again in the near future to move someplace even cheaper. So, no, I am not missing anything. You are just LA LA LA not listening to the fact that if you cannot find housing cheap enough that your pathetic low income will cover rent, fuck you. So, I stand by my statement that UBI won't really do shit all if we don't solve the affordable housing issue.

dagw 9y ago

Give me UBI and I quit my job to settle country side tomorrow, so would my wife. So would a few of my colleagues. If you're a halfway skilled programmer you can scrape together the equivalent of what you'd get on any sort of realistic UBI doing small freelance jobs while living in the country side.

geon 9y ago
And going freelance is scary without some kind of economical safety net. Like ubi.
- bicubic 9y ago
  Bingo. All of these 'but you can work remotely' suggestions are non starters to anyone who isn't already relatively wealthy, because they carry immense risk. If there was a serious safety net that guaranteed a decent quality of life, a significant portion of people would be taking on those options and leave the city centers.
  - pnutjam 9y ago
    True, it's one thing to convince your employer to let you work remotely. It's a totally different thing to convince a new employer to hire you remotely. I'm leaving the midwest because there are too few opportunities for the work I do. I'll be fighting it out in NY soon.
Pica_soO 9y ago
Not worth the people you have to put up with.

flexie 9y ago

> And you seem to miss the fact that with UBI you have no incentive to live and stay in an expensive area. Like many people here on HN, I can work from anywhere with electricity, Internet and decent cell phone coverage. But I still strongly prefer a bigger city, and I even prefer to be close to the city center, not out in suburbia. The reasons are many: - close to the city center I can chose between some of the best schools in the country for my kids. Outside the city center, I would have to chose a mediocre school. In the cuntryside, I would have to have to go with whatever is there - I like going out with my wife. In the city we can chose between all kinds of cuisines, cafes and bars. In a village, we would be lucky to find a pub with fries. In suburbia that would be a strip mall. - Shopping in easy in the city center. Whether you like it or not, you need to do groceries on a daily basis and to buy clothes etc every now and then, and this is far easier when you live in the city. - I like to walk for things (walk my kids to school, walk to do groceries, or just walk for the sake of it). Curiously, I find that this is easier in the city center with sidewalks and parks than in the countryside, where I would walk in the side of a highway or road. - In the city center I can do sports (tennis, soccer). Yes, I might find that option in the countryside or in suburbia, but in the city I can chose between 10 different teams, venues etc. - I like people. There are many more people in the cities, especially younger people. - I like to travel. I can take the metro to the airport in the city and visit hundreds of places within a a few hours of flight. Driving 2 hours to the nearest local airport to transfer to a bigger airport would kill that. I live far from my family and friends. They would visit much less if I didn't live near an international airport. What I am trying to say is that I think nowadays people live in the city for many other reasons than work.

kwhitefoot 9y ago
I think Mikushi's point would be that UBI gives both of you greater freedom to choose. It would probably reduce inner city housing costs a little as some of the people who currently are there only because they have no other way of getting an income decide to take their labour elsewhere where they can get more value for their contribution..
- wickawic 9y ago

driverdan 9y ago

> Give me UBI and I quit my job to settle country side tomorrow, so would my wife. So would a few of my colleagues. That's one of the problems with UBI. It has a negative impact on productivity which is bad for society.

wishinghand 9y ago
They didn't explicitly say it but since earlier in the comment they mentioned looking for remote work, I imagine they'd still search for it after they move. The key here is they wouldn't have to wait for the job first.

Mz 9y ago

And you seem to miss the fact that with UBI you have no incentive to live and stay in an expensive area. I am homeless. I also have portable income. I have already used that fact to move someplace cheaper. That failed to get me back into housing. I plan to move again in the near future to move someplace even cheaper. So, no, I am not missing anything. You are just LA LA LA not listening to the fact that if you cannot find housing cheap enough that your pathetic low income will cover rent, fuck you. So, I stand by my statement that UBI won't really do shit all if we don't solve the affordable housing issue.