3 ms·

And it hinders a lot more because it pre-supposes that race is the root cause for a lot of social ills when it's really things like lack of access to education,

by flukus 9y ago

And it hinders a lot more because it pre-supposes that race is the root cause for a lot of social ills when it's really things like lack of access to education, which hurts poor white, black and end everything in between people. It also get's used to diminish the accomplishments of many white people that did not have privileged backgrounds.

rosser 9y ago
Pointing out the uncontroversial fact that the average black man faces challenges which the average white man doesn't diminishes the white man's accomplishment's ... how, again?
- flukus 9y ago
  Because it gets used to paint a picture where white people are only successful because they were somehow privileged, which isn't always true. It's really quite racist actually, you are using skin color as the defining characteristic when socioeconomic status is far more relevant.
  - rosser 9y ago
    It gets "used" to "paint" that picture by people who are opposed to the concept. The notion of "privilege", as it's used in academic "social justice" work (and by pretty much everyone I've ever heard from or spoken with who takes "non-toxic" "SJW" values to heart) specifically accounts for that. (You may not hear about it from the latter, because they're probably sick to fucking death of hearing the same complaint, premised in a complete misunderstanding of the whole concept, from people — usually, surprise!, white men — over and over again. Wouldn't you be?) But it's so much easier to rail against the straw-man version of a concept that confirms your biases, right? EDIT: phrasing. And some "This again?" eye-roll. Sorry: not sorry.
    - ryanx435 9y ago
      I find it funny and ironic that the first 2 paragraphs of your post literally construct a strawman representation of people opposed to SJWs and than you accuse your newly created strawman of railing against strawmen in your 3rd paragraph. Wow
  - MisterBastahrd 9y ago
    Your entire line of reasoning is borderline moronic. You don't like talking about white privilege because some white people feel like they don't get enough credit because they're white. Meanwhile people of color suffer from real racism, both colloquial and institutional. Sure, it's socioeconomic too, but that's because for many, they're 3 generations from having the right to representation and 5 from having any human rights at all. And states are STILL racially gerrymandering congressional districts to minimize minority impact while doing everything they can to reduce the number of minority voters at the polls, both through voter ID laws and closing voting locations to make it harder for minorities to get to the polls. Every single black man who has "made it" in America still sits his child down before they get behind the wheel of his car to go over how they should deal with the traffic stop he is bound to get for being black. And I guarantee you when that kid goes into a convenience store, the clerk is watching him over the white kids in the store. Those same white kids never have to worry about getting told to go back where they came from, whether they're first generation or 10th. No, it's not just socioeconomic.
    - flukus 9y ago
      Now you've linked a 10 million year old fossil to police shootings, proving that the original comment was toxic. Thanks for making my point for me!
      - MisterBastahrd 9y ago
        I'm not the precious snowflake worried about how acknowledging the reality of racism in society will hurt my feelings.
    - sheepmullet 9y ago
      > Every single black man who has "made it" in America still sits his child down before they Haha nice one!! Black kids don't get to spend time with their fathers. Feminists made sure of that.
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
tacomonstrous 9y ago
I must have missed the part where the white man's ancestors were enslaved for generations, and then, even after being ostensibly freed, were segregated, oppressed and prevented from participating in the greatest economic boom the country has known by overtly racist policies that prevented them from accumulating generational wealth.
- flukus 9y ago
  Then you need to read more history, because it's happened just about everywhere at various times. More to the point though, a lot of white people didn't get in on that economic boom either, a lot of Balkan refugees during the 90's for instance, they don't like being told how privileged they are.
- ryanx435 9y ago
  You should read up in the history of England and their oppression of the irish, scotts, and welsh. Also the history of the germanic states and their opression under the french. Oh, and the entire history of Poland and their oppression under everyone. Oh, and the entirety of Europe and their enslavement under first the Romans than later the vikings and eachother. History didn't start with America and it won't end with it either.
- pandaman 9y ago
  I am a white man (pale skin, gray eyes, brown hair, penis). My ancestors were Slavs. They had been enslaved for millennia. My particular Slavic ancestors, Russians, had been freed a year before the Emancipation Proclamation, in 1861. They still had been oppressed all the way to 1991 or thereabouts as far as generational wealth goes. Please tell me more about my privilege.
  - rosser 9y ago
    Please tell me more about my privilege. Please tell me about all the times you've had to fear for your life during spurious, random traffic stops. Please tell me about all the times your value as a human being has been determined solely based upon your appearance. Please tell me about all the times you were deemed mentally incapable on the basis of a purely physical disability. EDIT: The word "privilege" as it's used in this context is meant to describe the things that you, personally, do not have to deal with in life, but (broadly) only those things over which people have no control — race, sex, disability, &c. You aren't black, so you don't have to worry about getting shot by a racist cop, when you were just going about your normal, daily life. You aren't a woman, so you don't have to worry about how deeply whether people think you're a worthwhile person or not is tied up in how you look. (Let alone having to worry rather less about the radically greater incidence of physical and sexual assault they face.) You aren't (presumably) physically or (obviously) mentally disabled. Full stop. You don't have to worry about all of the shit that comes along with those things. You have that "privilege". That's what that word means in a social justice context, not what you seem to think it does.

by flukus 9y ago

rosser 9y ago

Pointing out the uncontroversial fact that the average black man faces challenges which the average white man doesn't diminishes the white man's accomplishment's ... how, again?

flukus 9y ago
Because it gets used to paint a picture where white people are only successful because they were somehow privileged, which isn't always true. It's really quite racist actually, you are using skin color as the defining characteristic when socioeconomic status is far more relevant.
- rosser 9y ago
  It gets "used" to "paint" that picture by people who are opposed to the concept. The notion of "privilege", as it's used in academic "social justice" work (and by pretty much everyone I've ever heard from or spoken with who takes "non-toxic" "SJW" values to heart) specifically accounts for that. (You may not hear about it from the latter, because they're probably sick to fucking death of hearing the same complaint, premised in a complete misunderstanding of the whole concept, from people — usually, surprise!, white men — over and over again. Wouldn't you be?) But it's so much easier to rail against the straw-man version of a concept that confirms your biases, right? EDIT: phrasing. And some "This again?" eye-roll. Sorry: not sorry.
  - ryanx435 9y ago
    I find it funny and ironic that the first 2 paragraphs of your post literally construct a strawman representation of people opposed to SJWs and than you accuse your newly created strawman of railing against strawmen in your 3rd paragraph. Wow
- MisterBastahrd 9y ago
  Your entire line of reasoning is borderline moronic. You don't like talking about white privilege because some white people feel like they don't get enough credit because they're white. Meanwhile people of color suffer from real racism, both colloquial and institutional. Sure, it's socioeconomic too, but that's because for many, they're 3 generations from having the right to representation and 5 from having any human rights at all. And states are STILL racially gerrymandering congressional districts to minimize minority impact while doing everything they can to reduce the number of minority voters at the polls, both through voter ID laws and closing voting locations to make it harder for minorities to get to the polls. Every single black man who has "made it" in America still sits his child down before they get behind the wheel of his car to go over how they should deal with the traffic stop he is bound to get for being black. And I guarantee you when that kid goes into a convenience store, the clerk is watching him over the white kids in the store. Those same white kids never have to worry about getting told to go back where they came from, whether they're first generation or 10th. No, it's not just socioeconomic.
  - flukus 9y ago
    Now you've linked a 10 million year old fossil to police shootings, proving that the original comment was toxic. Thanks for making my point for me!
    - MisterBastahrd 9y ago
      I'm not the precious snowflake worried about how acknowledging the reality of racism in society will hurt my feelings.
  - sheepmullet 9y ago
    > Every single black man who has "made it" in America still sits his child down before they Haha nice one!! Black kids don't get to spend time with their fathers. Feminists made sure of that.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago

tacomonstrous 9y ago

I must have missed the part where the white man's ancestors were enslaved for generations, and then, even after being ostensibly freed, were segregated, oppressed and prevented from participating in the greatest economic boom the country has known by overtly racist policies that prevented them from accumulating generational wealth.

flukus 9y ago
Then you need to read more history, because it's happened just about everywhere at various times. More to the point though, a lot of white people didn't get in on that economic boom either, a lot of Balkan refugees during the 90's for instance, they don't like being told how privileged they are.
ryanx435 9y ago
You should read up in the history of England and their oppression of the irish, scotts, and welsh. Also the history of the germanic states and their opression under the french. Oh, and the entire history of Poland and their oppression under everyone. Oh, and the entirety of Europe and their enslavement under first the Romans than later the vikings and eachother. History didn't start with America and it won't end with it either.
pandaman 9y ago
I am a white man (pale skin, gray eyes, brown hair, penis). My ancestors were Slavs. They had been enslaved for millennia. My particular Slavic ancestors, Russians, had been freed a year before the Emancipation Proclamation, in 1861. They still had been oppressed all the way to 1991 or thereabouts as far as generational wealth goes. Please tell me more about my privilege.
- rosser 9y ago
  Please tell me more about my privilege. Please tell me about all the times you've had to fear for your life during spurious, random traffic stops. Please tell me about all the times your value as a human being has been determined solely based upon your appearance. Please tell me about all the times you were deemed mentally incapable on the basis of a purely physical disability. EDIT: The word "privilege" as it's used in this context is meant to describe the things that you, personally, do not have to deal with in life, but (broadly) only those things over which people have no control — race, sex, disability, &c. You aren't black, so you don't have to worry about getting shot by a racist cop, when you were just going about your normal, daily life. You aren't a woman, so you don't have to worry about how deeply whether people think you're a worthwhile person or not is tied up in how you look. (Let alone having to worry rather less about the radically greater incidence of physical and sexual assault they face.) You aren't (presumably) physically or (obviously) mentally disabled. Full stop. You don't have to worry about all of the shit that comes along with those things. You have that "privilege". That's what that word means in a social justice context, not what you seem to think it does.