5 ms·

On the education front why IYO are we actually stuck in a loop of credentialing instead of actual learning? Everyone is forced to take x amount of math, art, en

On the education front why IYO are we actually stuck in a loop of credentialing instead of actual learning? Everyone is forced to take x amount of math, art, english etc. This really should be done at grade school not everyone needs Calculus I or a Contemporary modeling of Shakespearean characters.

AstralStorm 9y ago
The problem is, that unlike vocational school, students cannot really be trusted they know what they want or need. Additionally some level of general knowledge is needed as a fallback. The solution is to fast forward through the easy parts, do not block it. The trouble then becomes managing mixed age classes.
- kwhitefoot 9y ago
  > The problem is, that unlike vocational school, students cannot really be trusted they know what they want or need. Neither can anyone else be trusted to know what the students want or need. At least it looks like that these days.
  - kermittd 9y ago
    This may be a cop out but I would say I agree with both of you. Students may not know for sure, but nor does the education bureaucracy. For my part I'd far rather student choice!
    - sokoloff 9y ago
      I wouldn't, any more than I'd let my 6 & 8 year olds choose their food entirely. I'm fiercely independent and libertarian, but I believe that a basic level of education is sufficiently important to a free society that it's worth curtailing that freedom to mandate certain things (or mandate by default with an opt-out process, which is pretty close to the condition today).
      - kermittd 9y ago
        Interesting those ages and I agree. That is why I said in my op comment these things should be ironed out in grade school ie 6-11 not even really in middle school and certainly not in high school where we decide what children need to function in society. I assume, and admittedly I'm 20, that with your young children you have much control over what they eat. But as the years go by you will have less and less. I really think students by middle school should be allowed to have far more self directed learning then the shite shoved down their throats.
      - geiseric 9y ago
        Problem with a school system choosing the curriculum, is that they can filter the truth or focus on what to teach. Forget REAL history. Why did the American Civil War really start? How about Henry Ford getting an Iron Cross from Hitler in the 30's? Why did he receive it? I didn't learn this stuff in the 70's and 80's either, but stumbled upon it as I read outside of the official curriculum. Kids nowadays have even a more PC curriculum. Lord help them. My 15 year old niece who we are raising comes home with some pretty crazy stuff that is required.
geiseric 9y ago
Because the Universities have an interest in the whole process. My kids got a University education, but overall it isn't worth it. Neither of them use their degree. Not saying don't go to college, but you really need to think it out. A Bachelors in Lesbian/Gay Studies, or any useless degree like this for example, doesn't have many career opportunities after graduation. Young folks leave school with so much student loan debt that something is going to have to give. I started college, but quit. I've been lucky/smart in my career. I started out in the Army and moved to Federal LEO that didn't require a degree. During the 90's I took a buyout and shifted into IT.(Still don't have a degree) Went back into the Army in 2007 and left in 2009, broken. (BTW I have Post 9/11 GI Bill, and still don't go.) Was tired of IT and ironically thought I would drive a truck. As the NYT article stated, what a thankless job. People treat you as second class citizens and the pay was horrible. Back to IT where I make a very good living and live in a suburb working in that suburb. 20 minute commute most days. Yes housing is expensive, but I have a rural property that is my refuge. Yes if I lived there, I would be hard pressed to find work. The only grocery store is a Piggly Wiggly that can't be more than 10k square feet. There farthest parking space is as close as the disabled ones at WalMart, so you need to be content with limited restaurants and stores and you pretty much have to have a car. I see people walking here and there, but that isn't something many can do. As side note, my rural county has only two permit requirements. Electrical and Septic. I can build a house out of Popsicle sticks and no one would say boo about it. Some observations on human nature, based on first hand experience. This is anecdotal evidence, but I have family members, friends and neighbors that have worked in factories. During conversations with them about changes taking place in their workplaces I hear about how they don't like them. Most of these changes are technological in nature. Most, not all, of these folks are too lazy to learn a new machine or process. All they want to do is come home and watch TV and many cases drink and do it all over again the next day. Go to work run a machine and make quota, go home. These folks are smart enough to learn, but just don't want to. My Grandpa was like this. He was content to go work and straighten drills all day, go home read the paper, watch the news and go to bed. He wasn't a drinker. I would ask him if he got bored straightening drills all day and he would just shrug. I couldn't get my mind around doing something that boring all all day. This was the 1970's BTW. Just my 2 cents.

AstralStorm 9y ago

The problem is, that unlike vocational school, students cannot really be trusted they know what they want or need. Additionally some level of general knowledge is needed as a fallback. The solution is to fast forward through the easy parts, do not block it. The trouble then becomes managing mixed age classes.

kwhitefoot 9y ago
> The problem is, that unlike vocational school, students cannot really be trusted they know what they want or need. Neither can anyone else be trusted to know what the students want or need. At least it looks like that these days.
- kermittd 9y ago
  This may be a cop out but I would say I agree with both of you. Students may not know for sure, but nor does the education bureaucracy. For my part I'd far rather student choice!
  - sokoloff 9y ago
    I wouldn't, any more than I'd let my 6 & 8 year olds choose their food entirely. I'm fiercely independent and libertarian, but I believe that a basic level of education is sufficiently important to a free society that it's worth curtailing that freedom to mandate certain things (or mandate by default with an opt-out process, which is pretty close to the condition today).
    - kermittd 9y ago
      Interesting those ages and I agree. That is why I said in my op comment these things should be ironed out in grade school ie 6-11 not even really in middle school and certainly not in high school where we decide what children need to function in society. I assume, and admittedly I'm 20, that with your young children you have much control over what they eat. But as the years go by you will have less and less. I really think students by middle school should be allowed to have far more self directed learning then the shite shoved down their throats.
    - geiseric 9y ago
      Problem with a school system choosing the curriculum, is that they can filter the truth or focus on what to teach. Forget REAL history. Why did the American Civil War really start? How about Henry Ford getting an Iron Cross from Hitler in the 30's? Why did he receive it? I didn't learn this stuff in the 70's and 80's either, but stumbled upon it as I read outside of the official curriculum. Kids nowadays have even a more PC curriculum. Lord help them. My 15 year old niece who we are raising comes home with some pretty crazy stuff that is required.

geiseric 9y ago

Because the Universities have an interest in the whole process. My kids got a University education, but overall it isn't worth it. Neither of them use their degree. Not saying don't go to college, but you really need to think it out. A Bachelors in Lesbian/Gay Studies, or any useless degree like this for example, doesn't have many career opportunities after graduation. Young folks leave school with so much student loan debt that something is going to have to give. I started college, but quit. I've been lucky/smart in my career. I started out in the Army and moved to Federal LEO that didn't require a degree. During the 90's I took a buyout and shifted into IT.(Still don't have a degree) Went back into the Army in 2007 and left in 2009, broken. (BTW I have Post 9/11 GI Bill, and still don't go.) Was tired of IT and ironically thought I would drive a truck. As the NYT article stated, what a thankless job. People treat you as second class citizens and the pay was horrible. Back to IT where I make a very good living and live in a suburb working in that suburb. 20 minute commute most days. Yes housing is expensive, but I have a rural property that is my refuge. Yes if I lived there, I would be hard pressed to find work. The only grocery store is a Piggly Wiggly that can't be more than 10k square feet. There farthest parking space is as close as the disabled ones at WalMart, so you need to be content with limited restaurants and stores and you pretty much have to have a car. I see people walking here and there, but that isn't something many can do. As side note, my rural county has only two permit requirements. Electrical and Septic. I can build a house out of Popsicle sticks and no one would say boo about it. Some observations on human nature, based on first hand experience. This is anecdotal evidence, but I have family members, friends and neighbors that have worked in factories. During conversations with them about changes taking place in their workplaces I hear about how they don't like them. Most of these changes are technological in nature. Most, not all, of these folks are too lazy to learn a new machine or process. All they want to do is come home and watch TV and many cases drink and do it all over again the next day. Go to work run a machine and make quota, go home. These folks are smart enough to learn, but just don't want to. My Grandpa was like this. He was content to go work and straighten drills all day, go home read the paper, watch the news and go to bed. He wasn't a drinker. I would ask him if he got bored straightening drills all day and he would just shrug. I couldn't get my mind around doing something that boring all all day. This was the 1970's BTW. Just my 2 cents.