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The idea that there are no genes for IQ is completely ludicrous. Humans are clearly smarter than every other animal; this is entirely because we have different

The idea that there are no genes for IQ is completely ludicrous. Humans are clearly smarter than every other animal; this is entirely because we have different genetics. Additionally, the only possible way humans could've become smarter than other animals is that natural selection operated over time so as to increase the frequency of human genetic variants responsible for increased intelligence. This means there must also be genetic variants within our species that affect how smart we are relative to other humans, or this could not have happened. The fact that intelligence is highly genetic in origin is extremely obvious. But the implications this fact has on how people interact with each other are extremely disturbing.

skybrian 9y ago
When people talk about "genes for IQ" they mean genes that account for differences between people. The genes that all humans share (most of them) contribute a lot more to intelligence. That's a different subject altogether.
- rlanday 9y ago
  Natural selection to increase intelligence on a group level is impossible unless there's variance in the group for natural selection to operate on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher%27s_fundamental_theorem_of_natural_selection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher%27s_fundamental_theorem... "The rate of increase in fitness of any organism at any time is equal to its genetic variance in fitness at that time."
  - skybrian 9y ago
    The genetic variation that got us here isn't necessarily the same as the variation that remains, though. Perhaps there used to be more variation? (There is the Flynn effect, but that's too quick to be genetic. Whatever its cause is apparently more important than genetics?)
    - rlanday 9y ago
      That's a good point, the amount of variation changes over time. I'd be extremely surprised if the current amount somehow fell all the way to zero though. There's apparently some speculation (according to the Wikipedia article on the Flynn effect at least) that the Flynn effect is due to non-genetic factors, in which case the underlying genetic trends are being obscured. There's a claim that genotypic IQ could be decreasing but we're not seeing that reflected effect in phenotypes due to environment improvements (which probably won't continue forever).
backpropaganda 9y ago
How is it disturbing? Almost every aspect of human individuals is a random variable. What's wrong with intelligence being a random variable too, which could depend on some other aspect of the individual? I think making this a scary fact is what promotes the problems in discourse we see on this topic.
- rlanday 9y ago
  Intelligence is essentially what separates humans from other animals, and why we believe human lives to be more morally significant than the lives of other animals. To acknowledge that some people are smarter than others is essentially to acknowledge that their lives are worth more under humanity's current moral system.
  - cmiles74 9y ago
    And if you read the above statement and think "I certainly do not think that way, that's nuts", keep in mind how many others may read it and think "Well, that's science for you; heartless but honest." That is my primary issue with this line of research. Clearly it can't be banned or made illegal, but I think it's worth acknowledging that racism and sexism are significant problems and to spend a little time considering how this line of research will make these problems even more intractable.
  - Magnusmaster 9y ago
    Not only that, it also means people will likely try to "solve" poverty in Africa and elsewhere by getting rid of the natives and populate it with higher IQ people, as eugenecists were proposing right after Darwin came up with his theory of evolution.
- metaphorm 9y ago
  > Almost every aspect of human individuals is a random variable. that's not even close to true. on the most basic level, you agree that certain traits are heritable in totally predictable ways, yes? eye color is an example of this.

skybrian 9y ago

When people talk about "genes for IQ" they mean genes that account for differences between people. The genes that all humans share (most of them) contribute a lot more to intelligence. That's a different subject altogether.

rlanday 9y ago
Natural selection to increase intelligence on a group level is impossible unless there's variance in the group for natural selection to operate on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher%27s_fundamental_theorem_of_natural_selection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher%27s_fundamental_theorem... "The rate of increase in fitness of any organism at any time is equal to its genetic variance in fitness at that time."
- skybrian 9y ago
  The genetic variation that got us here isn't necessarily the same as the variation that remains, though. Perhaps there used to be more variation? (There is the Flynn effect, but that's too quick to be genetic. Whatever its cause is apparently more important than genetics?)
  - rlanday 9y ago
    That's a good point, the amount of variation changes over time. I'd be extremely surprised if the current amount somehow fell all the way to zero though. There's apparently some speculation (according to the Wikipedia article on the Flynn effect at least) that the Flynn effect is due to non-genetic factors, in which case the underlying genetic trends are being obscured. There's a claim that genotypic IQ could be decreasing but we're not seeing that reflected effect in phenotypes due to environment improvements (which probably won't continue forever).

backpropaganda 9y ago

How is it disturbing? Almost every aspect of human individuals is a random variable. What's wrong with intelligence being a random variable too, which could depend on some other aspect of the individual? I think making this a scary fact is what promotes the problems in discourse we see on this topic.

rlanday 9y ago
Intelligence is essentially what separates humans from other animals, and why we believe human lives to be more morally significant than the lives of other animals. To acknowledge that some people are smarter than others is essentially to acknowledge that their lives are worth more under humanity's current moral system.
- cmiles74 9y ago
  And if you read the above statement and think "I certainly do not think that way, that's nuts", keep in mind how many others may read it and think "Well, that's science for you; heartless but honest." That is my primary issue with this line of research. Clearly it can't be banned or made illegal, but I think it's worth acknowledging that racism and sexism are significant problems and to spend a little time considering how this line of research will make these problems even more intractable.
- Magnusmaster 9y ago
  Not only that, it also means people will likely try to "solve" poverty in Africa and elsewhere by getting rid of the natives and populate it with higher IQ people, as eugenecists were proposing right after Darwin came up with his theory of evolution.
metaphorm 9y ago
> Almost every aspect of human individuals is a random variable. that's not even close to true. on the most basic level, you agree that certain traits are heritable in totally predictable ways, yes? eye color is an example of this.