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WW2, the original Worse Is Better: M4 Sherman PT Boats Liberty ships Almost everything the Soviets built

by douche 9y ago

jalayir 9y ago
> Almost everything the Soviets built The T-34. The epitome of sound, sensible, pragmatic engineering.
- rangibaby 9y ago
  In the early part of the war the T-34 outclassed everything the Germans had. More were lost to mechanical failure than enemy action. As the war went on, the Soviets continued to simplify it until it became classic example of Soviet design we know about today (like the AK-47). The extreme weather conditions and lack of availability of spare parts in the USSR lead to some awesome engineering: Soviet aircraft can operate from the world's shittiest airfields: https://youtu.be/uWUG1FuALaw https://youtu.be/uWUG1FuALaw MiG-29 has extra intakes on top so it doesn't suck in junk from said airfields: https://youtu.be/MpPSPQq7oas https://youtu.be/MpPSPQq7oas Russian trucks: https://youtu.be/5BRu-XGKdgU https://youtu.be/5BRu-XGKdgU
- lostboys67 9y ago
  Yes if only we had built a version under licence better bigger turret with the 17 Pounder and a bustle to fit the extra radio gear - poor radio coms and training was the soviet tankers weekness
IanDrake 9y ago
Maybe not worse is better, but quantity over quality. PT Boats is new to me. I'll have to look up why those were as bad as the others.
- douche 9y ago
  I'm not sure that they were bad, but they were cheap, quick to build, and suboptimal after the war was won. I remember one of the older History Channel shows, maybe the Great Ships, where they had one of the PT boat veterans on, describing how they scrapped and burned most of them on a beach in the Philippines after VJ day, with tears in his eyes.
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    Was that suboptimality, or just admirals' natural prejudice against small boats? After all PT boats were too small for the least senior captains. Also it seems that if any USA ally could ever have used some surplus boats, then surely Philippines post-WWII could have... what a waste!
lostboys67 9y ago
Quantity has a quality of its own :-) an allied tank regiment could lose 90% of its tanks and be back in action in a few days as we had much better logistics.
- arethuza 9y ago
  I think it was Max Hastings who wrote about the aftermath of the Normandy landings that there isn't much point your tanks/tankers being six times better than the enemy if your enemy has ten times as many tanks!
chiph 9y ago
There's a theory about the M4 that it wasn't really any more reliable than any other tank of the period. But it's ease of repair meant that the operational readiness was pretty close to 100%. https://youtu.be/udnEpV160zU?t=7m10s https://youtu.be/udnEpV160zU?t=7m10s
pjc50 9y ago
Also the Sten gun. And the same happened with aircraft; the Spitfire and Lancaster were "better", but the Hurricane and Wellington did a lot of vital work. Somewhere on youtube is the propaganda film of building a Wellington in 24 hours. Also the de Havilland Mosquito, made of wood rather than scarce aluminium, star of 633 Squadron's "trench run". The "little ships" of the Dunkirk evacuation should probably count (do Americans learn about Dunkirk?)
- chiph 9y ago
  > do Americans learn about Dunkirk There's a film coming out this summer about it. Part of Granddad's unit was at Dunkirk (Cheshire Regiment) but he was not - he was in North Africa.

WW2, the original Worse Is Better: M4 Sherman PT Boats Liberty ships Almost everything the Soviets built

by douche 9y ago

WW2, the original Worse Is Better: M4 Sherman PT Boats Liberty ships Almost everything the Soviets built

jalayir 9y ago

> Almost everything the Soviets built The T-34. The epitome of sound, sensible, pragmatic engineering.

rangibaby 9y ago
In the early part of the war the T-34 outclassed everything the Germans had. More were lost to mechanical failure than enemy action. As the war went on, the Soviets continued to simplify it until it became classic example of Soviet design we know about today (like the AK-47). The extreme weather conditions and lack of availability of spare parts in the USSR lead to some awesome engineering: Soviet aircraft can operate from the world's shittiest airfields: https://youtu.be/uWUG1FuALaw https://youtu.be/uWUG1FuALaw MiG-29 has extra intakes on top so it doesn't suck in junk from said airfields: https://youtu.be/MpPSPQq7oas https://youtu.be/MpPSPQq7oas Russian trucks: https://youtu.be/5BRu-XGKdgU https://youtu.be/5BRu-XGKdgU
lostboys67 9y ago
Yes if only we had built a version under licence better bigger turret with the 17 Pounder and a bustle to fit the extra radio gear - poor radio coms and training was the soviet tankers weekness

IanDrake 9y ago

Maybe not worse is better, but quantity over quality. PT Boats is new to me. I'll have to look up why those were as bad as the others.

douche 9y ago
I'm not sure that they were bad, but they were cheap, quick to build, and suboptimal after the war was won. I remember one of the older History Channel shows, maybe the Great Ships, where they had one of the PT boat veterans on, describing how they scrapped and burned most of them on a beach in the Philippines after VJ day, with tears in his eyes.
- jessaustin 9y ago
  Was that suboptimality, or just admirals' natural prejudice against small boats? After all PT boats were too small for the least senior captains. Also it seems that if any USA ally could ever have used some surplus boats, then surely Philippines post-WWII could have... what a waste!

lostboys67 9y ago

Quantity has a quality of its own :-) an allied tank regiment could lose 90% of its tanks and be back in action in a few days as we had much better logistics.

arethuza 9y ago
I think it was Max Hastings who wrote about the aftermath of the Normandy landings that there isn't much point your tanks/tankers being six times better than the enemy if your enemy has ten times as many tanks!

chiph 9y ago

There's a theory about the M4 that it wasn't really any more reliable than any other tank of the period. But it's ease of repair meant that the operational readiness was pretty close to 100%. https://youtu.be/udnEpV160zU?t=7m10s https://youtu.be/udnEpV160zU?t=7m10s

pjc50 9y ago

Also the Sten gun. And the same happened with aircraft; the Spitfire and Lancaster were "better", but the Hurricane and Wellington did a lot of vital work. Somewhere on youtube is the propaganda film of building a Wellington in 24 hours. Also the de Havilland Mosquito, made of wood rather than scarce aluminium, star of 633 Squadron's "trench run". The "little ships" of the Dunkirk evacuation should probably count (do Americans learn about Dunkirk?)

chiph 9y ago
> do Americans learn about Dunkirk There's a film coming out this summer about it. Part of Granddad's unit was at Dunkirk (Cheshire Regiment) but he was not - he was in North Africa.