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If your strategy in Scouts (and Life) is to avoid those activities and requirements that you don’t enjoy, you will have a difficult time transcending any d

by Sukotto 16y ago

If your strategy in Scouts (and Life) is to avoid those activities and requirements that you don’t enjoy, you will have a difficult time transcending any definition of mediocrity. That’s not a criticism -- merely an observation.

hugh3 16y ago
What if your strategy in life is to pursue whatever arbitrary goal is placed in front of you by some authority figure despite the complete lack of tangible rewards for doing so? This sounds less like a recipe for producing a successful and resourceful man of the world and more like a recipe for a guy who spends his spare time trying to get all the achievements on Grand Theft Auto 4.
- chromatic 16y ago
  That sounds like a false dilemma.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    Perhaps, but then again so is "Become an Eagle Scout" vs "be a loser your whole life".
    - mikeryan 16y ago
      Is that how you read Mike's response? Because I thought he took pains to clearly not tie those two together.
      - sprout 16y ago
        Somewhat crassly stated, but Mike's argument is equally false, even if more polite. Basically, Mike's argument was "either you're afraid of failure and you need to suck it up, or you need to quit because you don't belong in scouts."
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  The goals of BSA are many and varied; boys don't persue arbitrary goals at all. And Eagle Scout is awarded to recognize those that go above and beyond; the Scout must perform an important service to the community that is important to him. He gets to choose.
- moultano 16y ago
  The things you learn and the skills you demonstrate to become an Eagle scout are _Not_ arbitrary. To earn it you have to demonstrate that you can lead a group of people to do something useful, contribute meaningfully to your community, know basic first aid, and have some skill in the outdoors. The tangible awards for this are the skills and experience themselves.
samdk 16y ago
I'd argue that if you don't focus your efforts on the things that really matter to you you're going to have a tough time transcending mediocrity for entirely different reasons. If you avoid all activities and requirements that you don't enjoy then yes, you're going to have a very hard time becoming good at anything. But if you take on every challenge that you can just because it's there, you're going to fail at most of them and have a much harder time with those you really do care about.
dagw 16y ago
I've been involved in boy scouts from when I could join cub scouts until I turned 20. I really enjoyed it and got a lot out of it, but never made any attempt to get Eagle. For me that simply wasn't what scouting was about. Sure when I was young getting badges and awards was cool and all, but from about 16 or 17 I lost all interest in that. From then on, for me, scouts was about teaching younger kids cool things I knew and outdoor activities. That was what I enjoyed and that that's what I dedicated my time to, and as a result I never, officially, got beyond Star. Was I Doing It Wrong, perhaps according to the official measurements. But I fail to see how I or my troop would have been better off by me grinding merit badges instead of teaching kids how to climb.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago
  No, you were doing it very, very right. Scouts has room for all kinds - Camping Scouts, Fellowship Scouts, OA Scouts, Merit Badge Scouts, Leadership Scouts. Eagle is just one path. And btw National Standard is to get every Scout to 1st Class.
Oxryly 16y ago
Excellent observation. I'd go a step further and say you'll wind up avoiding your own self in the process -- which in turn will make you miserable. The Boy Scouts certainly helped me face my self directly, almost always against my preferences. Now if they (and I) had done a better job at prioritizing my time and dealing with my "atheism" I'd have made Eagle. Of course I would have felt guilty supporting an organization that essentially required a certain form of religious belief and also discriminated against gays. Their message and practice is flawed but still contains quite a bit of wisdom.

by Sukotto 16y ago

hugh3 16y ago

What if your strategy in life is to pursue whatever arbitrary goal is placed in front of you by some authority figure despite the complete lack of tangible rewards for doing so? This sounds less like a recipe for producing a successful and resourceful man of the world and more like a recipe for a guy who spends his spare time trying to get all the achievements on Grand Theft Auto 4.

chromatic 16y ago
That sounds like a false dilemma.
- hugh3 16y ago
  Perhaps, but then again so is "Become an Eagle Scout" vs "be a loser your whole life".
  - mikeryan 16y ago
    Is that how you read Mike's response? Because I thought he took pains to clearly not tie those two together.
    - sprout 16y ago
      Somewhat crassly stated, but Mike's argument is equally false, even if more polite. Basically, Mike's argument was "either you're afraid of failure and you need to suck it up, or you need to quit because you don't belong in scouts."
JoeAltmaier 16y ago
The goals of BSA are many and varied; boys don't persue arbitrary goals at all. And Eagle Scout is awarded to recognize those that go above and beyond; the Scout must perform an important service to the community that is important to him. He gets to choose.
moultano 16y ago
The things you learn and the skills you demonstrate to become an Eagle scout are _Not_ arbitrary. To earn it you have to demonstrate that you can lead a group of people to do something useful, contribute meaningfully to your community, know basic first aid, and have some skill in the outdoors. The tangible awards for this are the skills and experience themselves.

samdk 16y ago

I'd argue that if you don't focus your efforts on the things that really matter to you you're going to have a tough time transcending mediocrity for entirely different reasons. If you avoid all activities and requirements that you don't enjoy then yes, you're going to have a very hard time becoming good at anything. But if you take on every challenge that you can just because it's there, you're going to fail at most of them and have a much harder time with those you really do care about.

dagw 16y ago

I've been involved in boy scouts from when I could join cub scouts until I turned 20. I really enjoyed it and got a lot out of it, but never made any attempt to get Eagle. For me that simply wasn't what scouting was about. Sure when I was young getting badges and awards was cool and all, but from about 16 or 17 I lost all interest in that. From then on, for me, scouts was about teaching younger kids cool things I knew and outdoor activities. That was what I enjoyed and that that's what I dedicated my time to, and as a result I never, officially, got beyond Star. Was I Doing It Wrong, perhaps according to the official measurements. But I fail to see how I or my troop would have been better off by me grinding merit badges instead of teaching kids how to climb.

JoeAltmaier 16y ago
No, you were doing it very, very right. Scouts has room for all kinds - Camping Scouts, Fellowship Scouts, OA Scouts, Merit Badge Scouts, Leadership Scouts. Eagle is just one path. And btw National Standard is to get every Scout to 1st Class.

Oxryly 16y ago

Excellent observation. I'd go a step further and say you'll wind up avoiding your own self in the process -- which in turn will make you miserable. The Boy Scouts certainly helped me face my self directly, almost always against my preferences. Now if they (and I) had done a better job at prioritizing my time and dealing with my "atheism" I'd have made Eagle. Of course I would have felt guilty supporting an organization that essentially required a certain form of religious belief and also discriminated against gays. Their message and practice is flawed but still contains quite a bit of wisdom.