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Consumers tolerate it partially because they don't understand technology. They would not tolerate it if they really knew how it worked and had knowledge on how

Consumers tolerate it partially because they don't understand technology. They would not tolerate it if they really knew how it worked and had knowledge on how to fix the problem.

wordupmaking 9y ago
And then there's people who do understand but have friends who don't. As everybody should. I can self-host my email all I want, if I communicate with anyone in a corporate silo, the silo records it.
- JoshMnem 9y ago
  Yes, and there are many dark patterns that companies use to get your data from your contacts, even if you don't use those companies' products.
fixermark 9y ago
I think you over-estimate the public's sensitivity to the risk model. I know plenty of people (myself included) who know how it works and cheerfully embrace it, because the benefits outweigh the risks.
- JoshMnem 9y ago
  I know many technical people who understand the technology side of things, but they don't fully understand the political and societal implications. That may not be true in your case, and you may have some new arguments that I haven't heard, but I've never found a convincing argument for being careless about privacy, and I've been following and debating the issue fairly closely for about 15 years. It's a very complex and difficult problem. The answer isn't "we absolutely must have 100% privacy" or "they already have all of my data so it doesn't matter." But arguments along the lines of, "I don't mind if they have my data if it helps me find products that I like", tend to arise from "consumer" mentality rather than "architect" mentality. So I would revise my above comment to say, "Consumers tolerate it partially because they don't understand [the full implications]."
  - fixermark 9y ago
    So what risks does the architect mentality warn you of regarding giving a large chunk of data to a company? I'm personally very much in the "I don't mind if they have my data if it helps me find products that I like" camp. More specifically: I want the capabilities these technologies afford me, and if the requirement to use them is I fork over my data, sign me up. Because there isn't an alternative out there that works as well that isn't collecting a lot of data to power that functionality.

Consumers tolerate it partially because they don't understand technology. They would not tolerate it if they really knew how it worked and had knowledge on how to fix the problem.

wordupmaking 9y ago

And then there's people who do understand but have friends who don't. As everybody should. I can self-host my email all I want, if I communicate with anyone in a corporate silo, the silo records it.

JoshMnem 9y ago
Yes, and there are many dark patterns that companies use to get your data from your contacts, even if you don't use those companies' products.

fixermark 9y ago

I think you over-estimate the public's sensitivity to the risk model. I know plenty of people (myself included) who know how it works and cheerfully embrace it, because the benefits outweigh the risks.

JoshMnem 9y ago
I know many technical people who understand the technology side of things, but they don't fully understand the political and societal implications. That may not be true in your case, and you may have some new arguments that I haven't heard, but I've never found a convincing argument for being careless about privacy, and I've been following and debating the issue fairly closely for about 15 years. It's a very complex and difficult problem. The answer isn't "we absolutely must have 100% privacy" or "they already have all of my data so it doesn't matter." But arguments along the lines of, "I don't mind if they have my data if it helps me find products that I like", tend to arise from "consumer" mentality rather than "architect" mentality. So I would revise my above comment to say, "Consumers tolerate it partially because they don't understand [the full implications]."
- fixermark 9y ago
  So what risks does the architect mentality warn you of regarding giving a large chunk of data to a company? I'm personally very much in the "I don't mind if they have my data if it helps me find products that I like" camp. More specifically: I want the capabilities these technologies afford me, and if the requirement to use them is I fork over my data, sign me up. Because there isn't an alternative out there that works as well that isn't collecting a lot of data to power that functionality.