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You make good points, however, you misunderstood my request a little bit. I am not planning to hire engineers before I have an idea. Rather, I am looking for

You make good points, however, you misunderstood my request a little bit. I am not planning to hire engineers before I have an idea. Rather, I am looking for potential collaborators - engineers who are bored doing the same old thing and want to create something new. Fortunately, for the right people and the right project, I have access to funding. Hopefully, that clarifies things a bit Also, I do disagree with your statement that ideas have absolutely no value. That's a categorical assertion. Ideas have a lot of value- I have personal experience with monetizing good ideas. I do agree that ideas are only one of the inputs and the details of the execution matter just as much

smt88 9y ago
Ideas have no value for multiple reasons. Other people[1][2][3] have written about this at length, better than I could. First, they're never new. Someone has already had your idea and, most likely, beaten you to the market with that idea. If they haven't, it's probably a bad idea. First movers have a disadvantage. Second, ideas should be disposable. If you have an idea and the market won't bite, you need to throw away that idea immediately. Getting attached to ideas kills more startups than anything else. There's a good reason you can't protect a business idea in the US, the way you can protect an invention or a novel. You can, however, protect a process -- i.e. execution. I'll give you some honest feedback, which I hope will lead you to a more targeted pitch to engineers: I wouldn't work with you because you're proposing an idea-first approach, and, as an engineer, I don't need you. I have lots of ideas, and I can build the product myself. The value of a non-technical person in an early-stage startup is closing sales, ideally before the product is built. If you can't come to me and say, "I have 10 customers who will buy a product that solves [x] problem for around $[y]," then it doesn't make sense for me to work with you. 1. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/236605 https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/236605 2. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-worth-value-of-an-idea-for-a-startup https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-worth-value-of-an-idea-for... 3. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jjcolao/2013/04/03/your-idea-is-worth-nothing-a-rant-sparked-by-the-snapchat-lawsuit/#6381dcdfb702 https://www.forbes.com/sites/jjcolao/2013/04/03/your-idea-is...
- vasilipupkin 9y ago
  Look, you are very categorical in your statements, using terminology like never, always, etc. Why do you assume I am a non-technical person? I am very technical :) I am also not proposing an idea first approach. I am just trying to find likeminded collaborators. By all means, go build your idea yourself if you can :) Also, online posts talking about how ideas are worthless are just silly. Of course, if you want to sell an idea, that by itself will not fetch any money. But in order to execute, you have to decide what you are going to work on first. At no point did I propose pulling this decision out of nowhere. I am interested in talking to potential collaborators who are interested in brainstorming together. Ideally, it would be engineers who are secure enough ( like me ) from previous success, such that they are not worried about the risk of working on something new
  - smt88 9y ago
    If you don't want to discuss, why post on a discussion site? > I am also not proposing an idea first approach Then why do you want to brainstorm? Why do you say the only two things you need are engineers and an idea?
    - vasilipupkin 9y ago
      Where did I say that the only two things I need are engineers and an idea? I want to brainstorm because I am trying to choose what to work on next. I am not going to choose randomly. I am not a random person posting on this site. I've already done big things successfully and want to do more big things even more successfully in the future :) Also, I do want to discuss. I don't want to discuss whether ideas are worthless ( I have monetized ideas before quite successfully ). I want to discuss the ideas themselves :)
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
gus_massa 9y ago
Assuming you get two collaborators, how will be the equity split approximately? 33+33+33? 40+30+30? 90+5+5?
- vasilipupkin 9y ago
  I think the baseline is to split it equally, 33%, unless there is a very good reason that one of the three collaborators deserves more or less than that. Greed is not what is motivating me at this stage in my life
  - siegel 9y ago
    How do you intend to use your own money to fund this startup, then? Unless you intend to just give a straight loan to the company to be paid back with interest at some future date, then this will eventually be an unequal split. That's fine. But just be careful about how you do this.
    - vasilipupkin 9y ago
      I'll buy preferred convertible equity probably in addition to common stock, so that I'm both an investor and a founder
      - siegel 9y ago
        That's a sensible approach. Of course, then you won't be entirely equal in terms of your ownership in the company once the security converts.
  - siegel 9y ago
    One more thing: So, you have a 33-33-33 split. That means you can be fired, unless you build in protections for yourself. You don't want to put in a bunch of money into a startup, get fired, and have nothing to show for it.
    - vasilipupkin 9y ago

smt88 9y ago

Ideas have no value for multiple reasons. Other people[1][2][3] have written about this at length, better than I could. First, they're never new. Someone has already had your idea and, most likely, beaten you to the market with that idea. If they haven't, it's probably a bad idea. First movers have a disadvantage. Second, ideas should be disposable. If you have an idea and the market won't bite, you need to throw away that idea immediately. Getting attached to ideas kills more startups than anything else. There's a good reason you can't protect a business idea in the US, the way you can protect an invention or a novel. You can, however, protect a process -- i.e. execution. I'll give you some honest feedback, which I hope will lead you to a more targeted pitch to engineers: I wouldn't work with you because you're proposing an idea-first approach, and, as an engineer, I don't need you. I have lots of ideas, and I can build the product myself. The value of a non-technical person in an early-stage startup is closing sales, ideally before the product is built. If you can't come to me and say, "I have 10 customers who will buy a product that solves [x] problem for around $[y]," then it doesn't make sense for me to work with you. 1. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/236605 https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/236605 2. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-worth-value-of-an-idea-for-a-startup https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-worth-value-of-an-idea-for... 3. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jjcolao/2013/04/03/your-idea-is-worth-nothing-a-rant-sparked-by-the-snapchat-lawsuit/#6381dcdfb702 https://www.forbes.com/sites/jjcolao/2013/04/03/your-idea-is...

vasilipupkin 9y ago
Look, you are very categorical in your statements, using terminology like never, always, etc. Why do you assume I am a non-technical person? I am very technical :) I am also not proposing an idea first approach. I am just trying to find likeminded collaborators. By all means, go build your idea yourself if you can :) Also, online posts talking about how ideas are worthless are just silly. Of course, if you want to sell an idea, that by itself will not fetch any money. But in order to execute, you have to decide what you are going to work on first. At no point did I propose pulling this decision out of nowhere. I am interested in talking to potential collaborators who are interested in brainstorming together. Ideally, it would be engineers who are secure enough ( like me ) from previous success, such that they are not worried about the risk of working on something new
- smt88 9y ago
  If you don't want to discuss, why post on a discussion site? > I am also not proposing an idea first approach Then why do you want to brainstorm? Why do you say the only two things you need are engineers and an idea?
  - vasilipupkin 9y ago
    Where did I say that the only two things I need are engineers and an idea? I want to brainstorm because I am trying to choose what to work on next. I am not going to choose randomly. I am not a random person posting on this site. I've already done big things successfully and want to do more big things even more successfully in the future :) Also, I do want to discuss. I don't want to discuss whether ideas are worthless ( I have monetized ideas before quite successfully ). I want to discuss the ideas themselves :)
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

gus_massa 9y ago

Assuming you get two collaborators, how will be the equity split approximately? 33+33+33? 40+30+30? 90+5+5?

vasilipupkin 9y ago
I think the baseline is to split it equally, 33%, unless there is a very good reason that one of the three collaborators deserves more or less than that. Greed is not what is motivating me at this stage in my life
- siegel 9y ago
  How do you intend to use your own money to fund this startup, then? Unless you intend to just give a straight loan to the company to be paid back with interest at some future date, then this will eventually be an unequal split. That's fine. But just be careful about how you do this.
  - vasilipupkin 9y ago
    I'll buy preferred convertible equity probably in addition to common stock, so that I'm both an investor and a founder
    - siegel 9y ago
      That's a sensible approach. Of course, then you won't be entirely equal in terms of your ownership in the company once the security converts.
- siegel 9y ago
  One more thing: So, you have a 33-33-33 split. That means you can be fired, unless you build in protections for yourself. You don't want to put in a bunch of money into a startup, get fired, and have nothing to show for it.
  - vasilipupkin 9y ago