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That headline sounds like the plot of some Roger Corman-style B-movie. Why were they trapped in the first place? And is it a good idea to let them out?

tyingq 9y ago
The photo even seems roughly like "The Thing"...just crystals instead of ice.
twic 9y ago
Yes, this is the famous aphorism of Zal-Tar's Fence: > There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a crystal or jewel erected to contain an ancient being. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the danger this being poses; let us release it." To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: "If you don’t see the danger, I certainly won’t let you release it. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the danger, I may allow you to release it."
- blfr 9y ago
  Zal-Tar's? It's Chesterton's fence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    It's been a while, but I don't recall Chesterton mentioning "a crystal or jewel erected to contain an ancient being".
  - twic 9y ago
    That's the joke.
    - _h_o_d_ 9y ago
      can you please help us by explaining the joke (of an updated renamed Chesterton's fence)?
      - cthalupa 9y ago
        It's pretty obviously meant to be a sci-fi riff on Chesterton's fence. I don't know, this seems pretty obvious to me.
      - twic 9y ago
        You know, i'm not sure i can explain the joke. I can explain what i wrote, but not why it's funny (if indeed it is). As far as i know, we don't really understand what 'funny' actually is. My working hypothesis, though, is that this is mostly funny because of the conjuction between the familiar and the unfamiliar. There is then a second layer of funniness to do with absurdity. So, Chesterton's Fence is a bit of a meme (in the original sense) on HN now. I've seen it come up a few times, as something people consider obscure, but are eager to share, because it's interesting. I assumed that people would recognise it. The re-formulation as a piece of Kryptonian philosophy (Zal-Tar is the scientist guy from the 1984 Supergirl film) about something fantastical and over-the-top like an ancient evil trapped in a crystal, on the other hand, is unfamiliar. There's something about the superposition of the two that is funny. However, that feeds immediately into absurdity, because my re-formulation is rubbish; it's entirely unconvincing, and fails to disguise the origin of the quote. But that makes it more funny, because now you think i'm an idiot. Except you know i'm not really an idiot (well, something like that), you recognise that i'm playing at being an idiot. That isn't a universal element of all comedy, but it's something i personally lean on a lot - if you can make a really obviously silly statement the right way, either deadpan or hyperbolic, it can be funny. I'm reminded of "You've not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon.": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsCVuO1yeJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsCVuO1yeJc
        _h_o_d_ 9y ago
        OK, thank you! I think I might have been amused by it on another day. Or perhaps with a little linguistic style hint that you were up to such ironies (This possibility had been in my range of possibilities, but not at the top). Maybe the responder's literalist correction put me off before I had time to get the joke? Anyways, this helps with the ponderings on the tribulations of text!
- firethief 9y ago
  Sounds like a particular application of the more general principle that in order to disagree with someone constructively you first need to be able to articulate their point of view in a way they would agree with.
ceejayoz 9y ago
> Why were they trapped in the first place? I'd imagine they were engulfed by the growing crystals. > And is it a good idea to let them out? Extremophiles don't tend to do all that well outside of their extreme conditions. We're extremophiles to them.
moomin 9y ago
I swear, there's a scientist who looks suspiciously like Jake Gyllenhal saying "The way they're organising... it's almost intelligent..." just off camera right now.

tyingq 9y ago

The photo even seems roughly like "The Thing"...just crystals instead of ice.

twic 9y ago

Yes, this is the famous aphorism of Zal-Tar's Fence: > There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a crystal or jewel erected to contain an ancient being. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the danger this being poses; let us release it." To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: "If you don’t see the danger, I certainly won’t let you release it. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the danger, I may allow you to release it."

blfr 9y ago
Zal-Tar's? It's Chesterton's fence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  It's been a while, but I don't recall Chesterton mentioning "a crystal or jewel erected to contain an ancient being".
- twic 9y ago
  That's the joke.
  - _h_o_d_ 9y ago
    can you please help us by explaining the joke (of an updated renamed Chesterton's fence)?
    - cthalupa 9y ago
      It's pretty obviously meant to be a sci-fi riff on Chesterton's fence. I don't know, this seems pretty obvious to me.
    - twic 9y ago
      You know, i'm not sure i can explain the joke. I can explain what i wrote, but not why it's funny (if indeed it is). As far as i know, we don't really understand what 'funny' actually is. My working hypothesis, though, is that this is mostly funny because of the conjuction between the familiar and the unfamiliar. There is then a second layer of funniness to do with absurdity. So, Chesterton's Fence is a bit of a meme (in the original sense) on HN now. I've seen it come up a few times, as something people consider obscure, but are eager to share, because it's interesting. I assumed that people would recognise it. The re-formulation as a piece of Kryptonian philosophy (Zal-Tar is the scientist guy from the 1984 Supergirl film) about something fantastical and over-the-top like an ancient evil trapped in a crystal, on the other hand, is unfamiliar. There's something about the superposition of the two that is funny. However, that feeds immediately into absurdity, because my re-formulation is rubbish; it's entirely unconvincing, and fails to disguise the origin of the quote. But that makes it more funny, because now you think i'm an idiot. Except you know i'm not really an idiot (well, something like that), you recognise that i'm playing at being an idiot. That isn't a universal element of all comedy, but it's something i personally lean on a lot - if you can make a really obviously silly statement the right way, either deadpan or hyperbolic, it can be funny. I'm reminded of "You've not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon.": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsCVuO1yeJc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsCVuO1yeJc
      - _h_o_d_ 9y ago
        OK, thank you! I think I might have been amused by it on another day. Or perhaps with a little linguistic style hint that you were up to such ironies (This possibility had been in my range of possibilities, but not at the top). Maybe the responder's literalist correction put me off before I had time to get the joke? Anyways, this helps with the ponderings on the tribulations of text!
firethief 9y ago
Sounds like a particular application of the more general principle that in order to disagree with someone constructively you first need to be able to articulate their point of view in a way they would agree with.

ceejayoz 9y ago

> Why were they trapped in the first place? I'd imagine they were engulfed by the growing crystals. > And is it a good idea to let them out? Extremophiles don't tend to do all that well outside of their extreme conditions. We're extremophiles to them.

moomin 9y ago

I swear, there's a scientist who looks suspiciously like Jake Gyllenhal saying "The way they're organising... it's almost intelligent..." just off camera right now.