8 ms·

Desktop processor without ECC memory plus very slow SATA hard drives - not a setup for reliability and performance

by zyztem 9y ago

dragonsh 9y ago
I don't get it for 90% of startup this setup is more than enough to start and far cheaper then goog, Amazon, azure. Just the problem is most modern devops are lazy to learn the basics of setting a HA system with proper backup. Hertzner make it easy but one needs to know what they are doing. I am happy customer of hetzner for 4 years which is better given personal data privacy better in Germany then in USA(initially that was the primary reason of choosing them, to get away from usa based data center after Snowden).
- HalfwayToDice 9y ago
  most modern devops are lazy to learn the basics of setting a HA system Absurd nonsense.
- brianwawok 9y ago
  So what, I save $100 over Google but spend 3h a week futzing with configs?
  - kuschku 9y ago
    I’ve run the numbers with Hetzner, GCP, AWS, and even more managed products such as Firebase, Heroku, etc. Bare Metal compared to GCP or AWS will save you about 75% of your operating costs. Bare Metal compared to Heroku or Firebase will save you around 90% of your operating costs (a large part of this being caused by bandwidth, which is massively overpriced at Google and Amazon). With those savings you can usually serve 5 to 10 times as many customers. That might not be worth it if you’re in SV, and pay your devs the same wages Amazon or Google do (as then you’ll just pay more than with AWS or GCP), but if you’re in places where you pay half the wages Amazon or Google do4 , you can actually save a lot with this arrangement.
    - stemuk 9y ago
      I am really reluctant on setting up my own server cluster on bare-metal right now, can you recommend some specific open-source tools to manage and monitor these clusters?
      - jsjohnst 9y ago
        Kubernetes on CoreOS is a good option. Tectonic makes the setup part relatively easy.
        stemuk 9y ago
        Ok, thanks a lot. Since we're on it, is there any open-source software available that is specifically targeted at easily setting up storage servers (maybe with an S3 like SDK)? I found myself pretty much forced to use GCS because of a lack of good alternatives.
        jsjohnst 9y ago
        I haven't used it personally, but Minio [0] is something I've heard mentioned more than once. [0] https://github.com/minio/minio/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/minio/minio/blob/master/README.md
        kuschku 9y ago
        Minio is very nice, but sadly it only allows one set of credentials – I’d have preferred being able to separate the access permissions of each service, but that’s not supported.
        brianwawok 9y ago
        You will likely save a lot of headache to just use AWS or GCE. Running your own kube is a multiple week project.
        kuschku 9y ago
  - dragonsh 9y ago
    Sorry to break your bubble a vm with this configuration+bandwidth will be $1000 or more. So it's 1/10th to 1/5th over Amzn,goog or msft. Also if you are a startup you need to understand technology driving it. Blackbox doesn't help, what's necessary for goog isn't first priority for startup.
    - cwyers 9y ago
      > Sorry to break your bubble a vm with this configuration+bandwidth will be $1000 or more. But why would you buy a VM with this configuration? 32gb of RAM for two boxes, with two i7s that have 4 3.40ghz cores? Lots of people have the impression that cloud is more expensive than owning your own iron, and it probably is, but the difference is made a lot larger if you don't consider TCO and you make no effort to actually adapt your needs to the cloud. Cloud's economics are based around horizontal scaling and provisioning on-demand. If you're hosting in the cloud, you don't get two big machines like this, you shard your app over a bunch of cheap machines and you spin up more/bigger instances to meet peak demand. If you're buying cloud hosting but you go into it with "have everything we need to meet peak load running 24/7," of course it's going to cost you an arm and a leg.
    - brianwawok 9y ago
      Most startups I know don't need anywhere near that full-time processing power. So what does it matter if it's 10% of the price if it's 85% more than I need?
sigi45 9y ago
Our Buildsystem (Jenkins) needs CPU and RAM. Couldn't bother less with SATA Performance. Frontendserver also: Only needs CPU and RAM.
- merb 9y ago
  depends, if you do have a database heavy test suite, you probably need fast disks. our application really needs a good i/o performance. I tried to run 3-4 runs on the same machine with containerized cpu/memory, however as soon as 3 tests are running the i/o latency/performance goes numb, only thing that helped was either using different disks or faster disks.

Desktop processor without ECC memory plus very slow SATA hard drives - not a setup for reliability and performance

by zyztem 9y ago

Desktop processor without ECC memory plus very slow SATA hard drives - not a setup for reliability and performance

I don't get it for 90% of startup this setup is more than enough to start and far cheaper then goog, Amazon, azure. Just the problem is most modern devops are lazy to learn the basics of setting a HA system with proper backup. Hertzner make it easy but one needs to know what they are doing. I am happy customer of hetzner for 4 years which is better given personal data privacy better in Germany then in USA(initially that was the primary reason of choosing them, to get away from usa based data center after Snowden).

HalfwayToDice 9y ago
most modern devops are lazy to learn the basics of setting a HA system Absurd nonsense.
brianwawok 9y ago
So what, I save $100 over Google but spend 3h a week futzing with configs?
- kuschku 9y ago
  I’ve run the numbers with Hetzner, GCP, AWS, and even more managed products such as Firebase, Heroku, etc. Bare Metal compared to GCP or AWS will save you about 75% of your operating costs. Bare Metal compared to Heroku or Firebase will save you around 90% of your operating costs (a large part of this being caused by bandwidth, which is massively overpriced at Google and Amazon). With those savings you can usually serve 5 to 10 times as many customers. That might not be worth it if you’re in SV, and pay your devs the same wages Amazon or Google do (as then you’ll just pay more than with AWS or GCP), but if you’re in places where you pay half the wages Amazon or Google do4 , you can actually save a lot with this arrangement.
  - stemuk 9y ago
    I am really reluctant on setting up my own server cluster on bare-metal right now, can you recommend some specific open-source tools to manage and monitor these clusters?
    - jsjohnst 9y ago
      Kubernetes on CoreOS is a good option. Tectonic makes the setup part relatively easy.
      - stemuk 9y ago
        Ok, thanks a lot. Since we're on it, is there any open-source software available that is specifically targeted at easily setting up storage servers (maybe with an S3 like SDK)? I found myself pretty much forced to use GCS because of a lack of good alternatives.
        jsjohnst 9y ago
        I haven't used it personally, but Minio [0] is something I've heard mentioned more than once. [0] https://github.com/minio/minio/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/minio/minio/blob/master/README.md
        kuschku 9y ago
        Minio is very nice, but sadly it only allows one set of credentials – I’d have preferred being able to separate the access permissions of each service, but that’s not supported.
        brianwawok 9y ago
        You will likely save a lot of headache to just use AWS or GCE. Running your own kube is a multiple week project.
        kuschku 9y ago
- dragonsh 9y ago
  Sorry to break your bubble a vm with this configuration+bandwidth will be $1000 or more. So it's 1/10th to 1/5th over Amzn,goog or msft. Also if you are a startup you need to understand technology driving it. Blackbox doesn't help, what's necessary for goog isn't first priority for startup.
  - cwyers 9y ago
    > Sorry to break your bubble a vm with this configuration+bandwidth will be $1000 or more. But why would you buy a VM with this configuration? 32gb of RAM for two boxes, with two i7s that have 4 3.40ghz cores? Lots of people have the impression that cloud is more expensive than owning your own iron, and it probably is, but the difference is made a lot larger if you don't consider TCO and you make no effort to actually adapt your needs to the cloud. Cloud's economics are based around horizontal scaling and provisioning on-demand. If you're hosting in the cloud, you don't get two big machines like this, you shard your app over a bunch of cheap machines and you spin up more/bigger instances to meet peak demand. If you're buying cloud hosting but you go into it with "have everything we need to meet peak load running 24/7," of course it's going to cost you an arm and a leg.
  - brianwawok 9y ago
    Most startups I know don't need anywhere near that full-time processing power. So what does it matter if it's 10% of the price if it's 85% more than I need?

sigi45 9y ago

Our Buildsystem (Jenkins) needs CPU and RAM. Couldn't bother less with SATA Performance. Frontendserver also: Only needs CPU and RAM.

merb 9y ago
depends, if you do have a database heavy test suite, you probably need fast disks. our application really needs a good i/o performance. I tried to run 3-4 runs on the same machine with containerized cpu/memory, however as soon as 3 tests are running the i/o latency/performance goes numb, only thing that helped was either using different disks or faster disks.