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I don't get why developers even bother - just don't use Windows as dev OS - if you really need windows use it in VirtualBox - I spent years as .NET dev on Linux

I don't get why developers even bother - just don't use Windows as dev OS - if you really need windows use it in VirtualBox - I spent years as .NET dev on Linux desktop that way. Recently tried otherwise with docker for windows and one day after some magical windows update HyperV just killed my docker VM. For me Windows is just not reliable enough to be dev machine primary OS - it's not worth my time.

ghshephard 9y ago
I've used (and loved) VMware Workstation and Virtual Box, but WSL is a whole new level of awesome. There is something about the pureness of it's integration with windows (well, since creators update) that just makes it a joy to use as a client OS. Now, you still need virtualization for a ServerOS - WSL is all running under Bash.exe, so when that exits - everything is gone. But, for client OS - It's the bomb.
- skynode 9y ago
  WSL is the best thing since peanut butter. Recently moved all of my dev command line work to the Subsystem. Even better, VS Code integrates it perfectly well.
  - ams6110 9y ago
    Is it really any better than cygwin? Cygwin was the first thing I installed on a Windows machine, going back well over a decade. It did a fine job running bash and all the utility and X11 apps that I cared to use.
    - ghshephard 9y ago
      Tons better (I say this as a dedicated Cygwin user since at least 2003). Cygwin, bash, and tmux are the first three things I install on any windows system, but with Cygwin, you are limited to whatever Cygwin has repackaged for you. With WSL, 95% of the stuff in Ubuntu is just an "apt-get install" away. Only stuff that relies on special network access, or /proc and other system directories seems to have issues, and they are quickly working away on that. (Serial Support just landed). And now that they are planning on supporting Fedora, Suse, and Ubuntu environments, I can yum install, or just drop in-place any of the Redhat binaries as well. That's the big difference - I don't need cygwin compiled apps anymore - I just drop in the Linux variants and I am good to go.
- tkubacki 9y ago
  sorry without Docker support in 2017 WSL is no go for me
zzalpha 9y ago
I don't get why developers even bother I word: laptops. I've used a laptop as my primary dev environment for years. During that time I ran Debian on ThinkPads. Compared to Windows you paid a price in terms of higher power consumption and randomly breaking sleep and hibernate, not to mention poorer plug-and-play multi monitor/dock support. Add in unpredictable driver support and my newest laptop just runs Windows 10. If I need to use Linux I'll do so via WSL or VMs.
- tkubacki 9y ago
  Good for you - I refuse to use laptop for dev since I like multi-monitor env - and this is much easier and cheaper on desktop. On the other hand how often you do real work without AC ?
  - zzalpha 9y ago
    Frequently. It's a laptop, that's kinda the point! Aircraft and buses are common locations, but even when I'm coding on the couch I appreciate not being tethered to an outlet. And the sleep/hibernate problems are equally if not more important. I need to be able to close my laptop and reopen it without it consistently crashing. Debian Sid had a good stretch for a while there but right around the move to systemd things destabilized again and I'm just done with it.
    - tkubacki 9y ago
      Got it - still I've had to use laptop - I would go with one of Chromebooks with Crouton or System76 laptops
      - zzalpha 9y ago
        A chromebook as a dev environment is something I've never heard of. My dev laptop has 16Gb of memory and a 512Gb SSD with a Core i7 onboard. It gets 8 hours of active dev work on a charge. No Chromebook comes close to those specs. More generally, Linux just fails on a laptop. See the comments here: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/48y2db/system76_laptop_reviews/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/48y2db/system76_lapt... And that's for a laptop designed to work with Linux. Again, I have deep familiarity with running Linux on a laptop, having done so for over 10 years. Debian running on my old Lenovo T410 worked okay. Most of the time. Well, for a while, anyway. Assuming I could live with 2-3 hours of battery life and apt-get update resulting in random hardware breakage.

ghshephard 9y ago

I've used (and loved) VMware Workstation and Virtual Box, but WSL is a whole new level of awesome. There is something about the pureness of it's integration with windows (well, since creators update) that just makes it a joy to use as a client OS. Now, you still need virtualization for a ServerOS - WSL is all running under Bash.exe, so when that exits - everything is gone. But, for client OS - It's the bomb.

skynode 9y ago
WSL is the best thing since peanut butter. Recently moved all of my dev command line work to the Subsystem. Even better, VS Code integrates it perfectly well.
- ams6110 9y ago
  Is it really any better than cygwin? Cygwin was the first thing I installed on a Windows machine, going back well over a decade. It did a fine job running bash and all the utility and X11 apps that I cared to use.
  - ghshephard 9y ago
    Tons better (I say this as a dedicated Cygwin user since at least 2003). Cygwin, bash, and tmux are the first three things I install on any windows system, but with Cygwin, you are limited to whatever Cygwin has repackaged for you. With WSL, 95% of the stuff in Ubuntu is just an "apt-get install" away. Only stuff that relies on special network access, or /proc and other system directories seems to have issues, and they are quickly working away on that. (Serial Support just landed). And now that they are planning on supporting Fedora, Suse, and Ubuntu environments, I can yum install, or just drop in-place any of the Redhat binaries as well. That's the big difference - I don't need cygwin compiled apps anymore - I just drop in the Linux variants and I am good to go.
tkubacki 9y ago
sorry without Docker support in 2017 WSL is no go for me

zzalpha 9y ago

I don't get why developers even bother I word: laptops. I've used a laptop as my primary dev environment for years. During that time I ran Debian on ThinkPads. Compared to Windows you paid a price in terms of higher power consumption and randomly breaking sleep and hibernate, not to mention poorer plug-and-play multi monitor/dock support. Add in unpredictable driver support and my newest laptop just runs Windows 10. If I need to use Linux I'll do so via WSL or VMs.

tkubacki 9y ago
Good for you - I refuse to use laptop for dev since I like multi-monitor env - and this is much easier and cheaper on desktop. On the other hand how often you do real work without AC ?
- zzalpha 9y ago
  Frequently. It's a laptop, that's kinda the point! Aircraft and buses are common locations, but even when I'm coding on the couch I appreciate not being tethered to an outlet. And the sleep/hibernate problems are equally if not more important. I need to be able to close my laptop and reopen it without it consistently crashing. Debian Sid had a good stretch for a while there but right around the move to systemd things destabilized again and I'm just done with it.
  - tkubacki 9y ago
    Got it - still I've had to use laptop - I would go with one of Chromebooks with Crouton or System76 laptops
    - zzalpha 9y ago
      A chromebook as a dev environment is something I've never heard of. My dev laptop has 16Gb of memory and a 512Gb SSD with a Core i7 onboard. It gets 8 hours of active dev work on a charge. No Chromebook comes close to those specs. More generally, Linux just fails on a laptop. See the comments here: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/48y2db/system76_laptop_reviews/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/48y2db/system76_lapt... And that's for a laptop designed to work with Linux. Again, I have deep familiarity with running Linux on a laptop, having done so for over 10 years. Debian running on my old Lenovo T410 worked okay. Most of the time. Well, for a while, anyway. Assuming I could live with 2-3 hours of battery life and apt-get update resulting in random hardware breakage.