9 ms·

I don't think this has much to do with Reddit. "Randroid" and similar terms as a derogatory way of describing a certain cluster of ultra-free-market views has b

I don't think this has much to do with Reddit. "Randroid" and similar terms as a derogatory way of describing a certain cluster of ultra-free-market views has been common on every online discussion service I've been on, dating back to Usenet. Although this may be partly because actual, honest-to-god Ayn Rand fans are also surprisingly common on online discussion forums (and were especially common on Usenet).

specialist 9y ago
It predates even usenet, eg FidoNet, BIX, CompuServe. My gamer and geek friends have been spewing libertarian flavored Randian nonsense since middle school, circa 1983. I never imagined that worldview would prevail. It was just so puerile. Not so different than the tortured coming of age fantasies embraced by the other subcultures (stoners, metalheads, preppies). Though maybe the nerds were more aggrieved, seeing themselves as an oppressed minority. Of course, none of us knew about the well funded propaganda machine pushing the whole Austrian/Chicago school of economics. Young Republicans, trickle-down economics, John Birch Society, Hertitage Foundation, disaster capitalism, Grover Norquist, etc. Edit: TL;DR: Mockery is the only appropriate response.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  Downvotes for truth, here, I suppose. You could add in the Mont Pelerin Society,Foundation for Economic Freedom, Atlas Network, and Cato Institute, Mercatus Center, Adam Smith Institute, Mercatus Center. And personnel: Ludwig von Mises, Leonard Read, Murray Rothbard, Friedrich Hayek, the Kochs (Fred, Charles, David), for completeness. Mark Ames has an excellent general summary: http://www.alternet.org/visions/true-history-libertarianism-america-phony-ideology-promote-corporate-agenda http://www.alternet.org/visions/true-history-libertarianism-... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Pelerin_Society https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Pelerin_Society https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Network https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Network https://www.atlasnetwork.org/partners/global-directory https://www.atlasnetwork.org/partners/global-directory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Economic_Education https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Economic_Educ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercatus_Center https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercatus_Center See, e.g., Philip Mirowski's The Road From Mont Pelerin: http://www.worldcat.org/title/road-from-mont-pelerin-the-making-of-the-neoliberal-thought-collective-with-a-new-preface/oclc/937723469 http://www.worldcat.org/title/road-from-mont-pelerin-the-mak...
  - specialist 9y ago
    Thanks for Mark Ames link. TL;DR: They were always hucksters for hire. I recently read a magazine article that covers same history as Mirowski's book. Hayek's motivations and strategy for pushing his ideas (take over economics depts in higher ed) are fascinating, instructive. Sadly, I can't imagine how the left could replicate that effort for reality-based polcies. On mobile, sorry no link handy. I'll edit if I can find it.
    - dredmorbius 9y ago
      There's the related Lewis Powell Memorandum: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_M... I'm not immediately recalling or coming up with a Hayek reference, though it wouldn't surprise me in the least, and I'd very much like to see what you're thinking of if you can find it.
  - antisthenes 9y ago
    Ah, good. At least someone on the Internet recognizes the Mercatus Center for the Koch propaganda machine that they are. It's unfortunate, the influence they have on the GMU graduates.
    - dredmorbius 9y ago
      The Atlas Network's own validation that the whole snake pit is in fact an octopus (a connected and unified entity, not simply a set of disjoint units) is ... surprisingly useful.
- _delirium 9y ago
  Getting off topic, but while I'm not a fan of any of those philosophies, I'd be wary of conflating too quickly these different varieties of free-market supporters. Rand fans who got into the whole Objectivism thing via her books, parts of the SF scene, etc., vs hereditary billionaires who are attracted to Heritage-Foundation-style free-market economics (whose political expression in the U.S. is mainly as "business Republicans", though sometimes as "corporate Democrats"), are fairly different groups of people. There's the occasional overlap, but it's mostly different people with different motivations.
  - specialist 9y ago
    True. During the aughts, I attended many of our local political parties. Socialists, Dems, GOP, Libertarians, etc. All these cliques, for lack of a better word, are mostly defined by what they're not (in opposition to other cliques). The exception was our local Green Party. Their members were defined affirmatively, by what they stood for, vs in opposition to some other group. The Libertarians were especially mushy in their supposedly beliefs, and no two agreed on anything other than everyone else was wrong. Kinda like the various Christian sects.

specialist 9y ago

It predates even usenet, eg FidoNet, BIX, CompuServe. My gamer and geek friends have been spewing libertarian flavored Randian nonsense since middle school, circa 1983. I never imagined that worldview would prevail. It was just so puerile. Not so different than the tortured coming of age fantasies embraced by the other subcultures (stoners, metalheads, preppies). Though maybe the nerds were more aggrieved, seeing themselves as an oppressed minority. Of course, none of us knew about the well funded propaganda machine pushing the whole Austrian/Chicago school of economics. Young Republicans, trickle-down economics, John Birch Society, Hertitage Foundation, disaster capitalism, Grover Norquist, etc. Edit: TL;DR: Mockery is the only appropriate response.

dredmorbius 9y ago
Downvotes for truth, here, I suppose. You could add in the Mont Pelerin Society,Foundation for Economic Freedom, Atlas Network, and Cato Institute, Mercatus Center, Adam Smith Institute, Mercatus Center. And personnel: Ludwig von Mises, Leonard Read, Murray Rothbard, Friedrich Hayek, the Kochs (Fred, Charles, David), for completeness. Mark Ames has an excellent general summary: http://www.alternet.org/visions/true-history-libertarianism-america-phony-ideology-promote-corporate-agenda http://www.alternet.org/visions/true-history-libertarianism-... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Pelerin_Society https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Pelerin_Society https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Network https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Network https://www.atlasnetwork.org/partners/global-directory https://www.atlasnetwork.org/partners/global-directory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Economic_Education https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Economic_Educ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercatus_Center https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercatus_Center See, e.g., Philip Mirowski's The Road From Mont Pelerin: http://www.worldcat.org/title/road-from-mont-pelerin-the-making-of-the-neoliberal-thought-collective-with-a-new-preface/oclc/937723469 http://www.worldcat.org/title/road-from-mont-pelerin-the-mak...
- specialist 9y ago
  Thanks for Mark Ames link. TL;DR: They were always hucksters for hire. I recently read a magazine article that covers same history as Mirowski's book. Hayek's motivations and strategy for pushing his ideas (take over economics depts in higher ed) are fascinating, instructive. Sadly, I can't imagine how the left could replicate that effort for reality-based polcies. On mobile, sorry no link handy. I'll edit if I can find it.
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    There's the related Lewis Powell Memorandum: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_M... I'm not immediately recalling or coming up with a Hayek reference, though it wouldn't surprise me in the least, and I'd very much like to see what you're thinking of if you can find it.
- antisthenes 9y ago
  Ah, good. At least someone on the Internet recognizes the Mercatus Center for the Koch propaganda machine that they are. It's unfortunate, the influence they have on the GMU graduates.
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    The Atlas Network's own validation that the whole snake pit is in fact an octopus (a connected and unified entity, not simply a set of disjoint units) is ... surprisingly useful.
_delirium 9y ago
Getting off topic, but while I'm not a fan of any of those philosophies, I'd be wary of conflating too quickly these different varieties of free-market supporters. Rand fans who got into the whole Objectivism thing via her books, parts of the SF scene, etc., vs hereditary billionaires who are attracted to Heritage-Foundation-style free-market economics (whose political expression in the U.S. is mainly as "business Republicans", though sometimes as "corporate Democrats"), are fairly different groups of people. There's the occasional overlap, but it's mostly different people with different motivations.
- specialist 9y ago
  True. During the aughts, I attended many of our local political parties. Socialists, Dems, GOP, Libertarians, etc. All these cliques, for lack of a better word, are mostly defined by what they're not (in opposition to other cliques). The exception was our local Green Party. Their members were defined affirmatively, by what they stood for, vs in opposition to some other group. The Libertarians were especially mushy in their supposedly beliefs, and no two agreed on anything other than everyone else was wrong. Kinda like the various Christian sects.