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The ‘Alien Megastructure’ Star Is Dimming Again

47 points by robteix 9y ago

devsigner 9y ago
https://imgur.com/a/RwQZm https://imgur.com/a/RwQZm
scrumper 9y ago
So reading the article, this is the first opportunity we've had to observe a dip in real time. This means that we will be able to capture spectra of the occluding materials and then perhaps be able to figure out what they're made of. Pretty exciting.
- ianai 9y ago
  Douglas Adams would write they found the spectra of alcohol and olives.
bglazer 9y ago
It's been enormously exciting to watch all the developments around KIC8462852 happen in real time. There's been some monumentally terrible "it must be aliens!!" style reporting around this, but I feel like the reporting and the messages coming from the scientists involved have been remarkably high quality. They've conveyed that they basically don't know what's going on, but that this is the most exciting part. Discovery! Anyways, I'm really pumped for the spectral analysis of whatever is occluding Tabby's star. Even if it's not aliens (I hope it's aliens), there will certainly be more unanswered questions and lots of interesting follow-up analysis.
- mbfg 9y ago
  If it were aliens, it was them 1300 years ago, so probably dead. Assuming they are as dumb as we are and will destroy themselves.
  - ianai 9y ago
    If they're occluding a stars output enough to be detected 1300 ly away they're not as dumb as we are.
placeybordeaux 9y ago
It would seem to me that the dark forest theory [1] and building megastructures large enough to dim your star like this are largely incompatible. It would be really neat if not only this demonstrates existence of life outside of earth, but relieves one of the theories that suggests we shouldn't contact said life. [1]: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Dark-Forest-Theory-of-the-cosmos-which-is-a-response-to-the-Fermi-Paradox https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Dark-Forest-Theory-of-the-...
- ryanx435 9y ago
  that sort of depends on what the mega structures actually do. if it is some kind of energy source for FTL travel or super weapon or something, it may be worth it to dim your star to get the benefit. also, the mega structures may be built around a star that is not their home system: it could be a trap to get other aliens to send ships to investigate the dimming, at which point the builders of the mega structures capture the investigating ships for whatever reason. dark forest theory and mega structures are compatible under the right circumstances.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- briga 9y ago
  There are fish in the deep ocean that produce light as a lure for prey. I don't see why this couldn't be the case with extra-terrestrial life. Whether or not the cause of this dimming is biological or not, I don't think this is a sign that we shouldn't be cautious when trying to make contact with aliens.
  - krapp 9y ago
    I think evidence of stellar-scale engineering would be a very good sign that we should approach the possibility of first contact with caution.
- pavement 9y ago
  The Dark Forest Theory has some substantial flaws that render it little more than a simple conceptual gambit, rather than an actual strategy for crafting interstellar civilization. Destruction of all peers, to achieve the safety of solitude, is something to expect from the simplistic gropings of a jellyfish. As intelligent life, we can take up better angles of a approach to meet this sort of dilemma. The speed of light will probably stump any emerging civilization, but declaring it's barrier to be an impenetrable prison that transforms all intelligent life into deadly adversaries feels like an idea ripe with fallacies. If such a thing were truly inevitable, ancient human cities and colonies would have behaved the same way, due to centuries of primitive technology incapable of breaking the sound barrier. Imagine the idea that we should always plan to kill each other because we can't run faster than the sound of our own voices. The Law of The Jungle might have some truth to it, but one expects technology wielding social organisms to transcend such anarchy.
briga 9y ago
I'm not an astronomer, so could someone explain why everyone's assuming this is an 'alien megastructure', rather than, say, a regular planet?
- valuearb 9y ago
  Because of the irregularity of the dimming. A normal planet should dim the star in a consistent predictable pattern, such as once an orbit and the orbit should take the same time each time. Something like _ _ A _ _ A _ _ A _ _ A Multiple planets should do the same, the nearer planets dim it more often, the farther less often, but the same time between the same planet's occultation and a predictable pattern. Something like _A _ _ B A _ _ _ A _ _ B A _ _ _ A _ _ B A
ams6110 9y ago
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- ianai 9y ago
  We hope*.

47 points by robteix 9y ago

https://imgur.com/a/RwQZm https://imgur.com/a/RwQZm

So reading the article, this is the first opportunity we've had to observe a dip in real time. This means that we will be able to capture spectra of the occluding materials and then perhaps be able to figure out what they're made of. Pretty exciting.

ianai 9y ago
Douglas Adams would write they found the spectra of alcohol and olives.

bglazer 9y ago

It's been enormously exciting to watch all the developments around KIC8462852 happen in real time. There's been some monumentally terrible "it must be aliens!!" style reporting around this, but I feel like the reporting and the messages coming from the scientists involved have been remarkably high quality. They've conveyed that they basically don't know what's going on, but that this is the most exciting part. Discovery! Anyways, I'm really pumped for the spectral analysis of whatever is occluding Tabby's star. Even if it's not aliens (I hope it's aliens), there will certainly be more unanswered questions and lots of interesting follow-up analysis.

mbfg 9y ago
If it were aliens, it was them 1300 years ago, so probably dead. Assuming they are as dumb as we are and will destroy themselves.
- ianai 9y ago
  If they're occluding a stars output enough to be detected 1300 ly away they're not as dumb as we are.

placeybordeaux 9y ago

It would seem to me that the dark forest theory [1] and building megastructures large enough to dim your star like this are largely incompatible. It would be really neat if not only this demonstrates existence of life outside of earth, but relieves one of the theories that suggests we shouldn't contact said life. [1]: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Dark-Forest-Theory-of-the-cosmos-which-is-a-response-to-the-Fermi-Paradox https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-Dark-Forest-Theory-of-the-...

ryanx435 9y ago
that sort of depends on what the mega structures actually do. if it is some kind of energy source for FTL travel or super weapon or something, it may be worth it to dim your star to get the benefit. also, the mega structures may be built around a star that is not their home system: it could be a trap to get other aliens to send ships to investigate the dimming, at which point the builders of the mega structures capture the investigating ships for whatever reason. dark forest theory and mega structures are compatible under the right circumstances.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
briga 9y ago
There are fish in the deep ocean that produce light as a lure for prey. I don't see why this couldn't be the case with extra-terrestrial life. Whether or not the cause of this dimming is biological or not, I don't think this is a sign that we shouldn't be cautious when trying to make contact with aliens.
- krapp 9y ago
  I think evidence of stellar-scale engineering would be a very good sign that we should approach the possibility of first contact with caution.
pavement 9y ago
The Dark Forest Theory has some substantial flaws that render it little more than a simple conceptual gambit, rather than an actual strategy for crafting interstellar civilization. Destruction of all peers, to achieve the safety of solitude, is something to expect from the simplistic gropings of a jellyfish. As intelligent life, we can take up better angles of a approach to meet this sort of dilemma. The speed of light will probably stump any emerging civilization, but declaring it's barrier to be an impenetrable prison that transforms all intelligent life into deadly adversaries feels like an idea ripe with fallacies. If such a thing were truly inevitable, ancient human cities and colonies would have behaved the same way, due to centuries of primitive technology incapable of breaking the sound barrier. Imagine the idea that we should always plan to kill each other because we can't run faster than the sound of our own voices. The Law of The Jungle might have some truth to it, but one expects technology wielding social organisms to transcend such anarchy.

briga 9y ago

I'm not an astronomer, so could someone explain why everyone's assuming this is an 'alien megastructure', rather than, say, a regular planet?

valuearb 9y ago
Because of the irregularity of the dimming. A normal planet should dim the star in a consistent predictable pattern, such as once an orbit and the orbit should take the same time each time. Something like _ _ A _ _ A _ _ A _ _ A Multiple planets should do the same, the nearer planets dim it more often, the farther less often, but the same time between the same planet's occultation and a predictable pattern. Something like _A _ _ B A _ _ _ A _ _ B A _ _ _ A _ _ B A

ams6110 9y ago

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

ianai 9y ago
We hope*.