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> if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem Well, Colorado tried that. Recreational weed has been fully legal in Colorado since Janua

> if you legalize marijuana you go a long way to solving the problem Well, Colorado tried that. Recreational weed has been fully legal in Colorado since January 1, 2014. You can walk down any major street in Denver or Boulder and pass multiple outlets selling marijuana. And they've sold lots of it, according to the tax receipts raised. The result has not been the sudden reversal of opioid addiction that you had hoped for. In 2015, opioid overdoses in Colorado continued to increase at the same rate as prior to legalization of marijuana. That year, opioid overdoses killed more Coloradans than homicide. [0] In 2016, the total number of opioid deaths dropped 6%, but the number of heroin overdoses continued to increase. [1] Personal experience in Portland Oregon suggests that in that city, legal marijuana has not made a dent in the meth and heroin issues that are still affecting the city. Maybe recreational marijuana laws have helped. Nothing in this data can disprove that maybe more people would have died without it. But it hasn't been a magic bullet. It hasn't yet gone "a long way to" solving the problem of heroin overuse. [FWIW, I'm in favor of recreational marijuana legalization, but the problems of heroin have different roots and we can't expect legal marijuana to immediately solve those issues.] [0] http://www.denverpost.com/2017/01/03/colorado-opioid-heroin-deaths-outnumbered-homicides/ http://www.denverpost.com/2017/01/03/colorado-opioid-heroin-... [1] http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/07/colorado-opioid-heroin-deaths/ http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/07/colorado-opioid-heroin-...

ska 9y ago
It will be interesting to see if this eventually puts a dent in the number of new opioid addictions - but that is a very different thing than addressing current addictions and/or transference from prescriptions to street drugs. I suspect it will be about a decade before any really good analysis can be done on that aspect.
rch 9y ago
I wouldn't take issue with your overall point, but the headline in your second link contradicts the article: As prescription opioid deaths drop 6 percent in Colorado, heroin deaths rise 23 percent vs. Overall, the total number of opiate deaths — meaning deaths from both prescription painkillers like fentanyl or from illegal opiates like heroin — fell by about 6 percent, from 472 deaths in 2015 to 442 deaths in 2016.
- throwaway2016a 9y ago
  Also, as an aside, heroin and opioids aren't not automatically fatal so that number is a subset of users. An important number is not just deaths but also hospital visits and new users are important.
axlprose 9y ago
Intuitively, this makes sense. Anyone buying heroin/meth/whatever would've likely also been exposed to the option of buying marijuana just as easily among those alternatives when it was still completely illegal. If marijuana was a viable alternative for their drug of choice, I imagine they would've just stuck with that regardless of legalization, since it's cheaper and safer. Hence I wouldn't really expect legalization of any drug X to improve problems with any drug Y in most cases. But if legalization itself helps with drug problems in general, I might expect that only legalizing drug Y would help drug Y's problems.
throwaway2016a 9y ago
> The result has not been the sudden reversal of opioid addiction that you had hoped for. I didn't say "sudden". I think it would take time. Addiction doesn't happen overnight. I am open minded and I am not going to ignore research if the research doesn't support my view. But my hunch is, it is too soon or too much damage has already been done and we need to take other steps to reduce usage not just legalization. Incidentally I thought I saw some research that showed the opposite effect but I can't find the link right now... I'll take a look for it later and see if I can find it.
- baldfat 9y ago
  When ANYTHING is used to escape from emotional pain be it heroin, pot or food it is wrong and causes problems.
stronglikedan 9y ago
> the sudden reversal of opioid addiction I don't think anyone (even the parent commentor) thinks that would happen. At best, I think we can only hope for prevention, and even that will require a lengthy period reeducation and destigmatization. Speaking from experience, it's nearly impossible to truly reverse opioid addiction. Preventing that addiction in the first place by utilizing other non-or-less-addictive pain control methods, such as marijuana, is our only hope.
hbosch 9y ago
Is there an easy way to collect and cross reference opioid deaths in non-prohibitive states? You seem familiar with the problem and the data - is Colorado's rate of overdose increase proportional to that of places like West Virginia, for instance?

ska 9y ago

It will be interesting to see if this eventually puts a dent in the number of new opioid addictions - but that is a very different thing than addressing current addictions and/or transference from prescriptions to street drugs. I suspect it will be about a decade before any really good analysis can be done on that aspect.

rch 9y ago

I wouldn't take issue with your overall point, but the headline in your second link contradicts the article: As prescription opioid deaths drop 6 percent in Colorado, heroin deaths rise 23 percent vs. Overall, the total number of opiate deaths — meaning deaths from both prescription painkillers like fentanyl or from illegal opiates like heroin — fell by about 6 percent, from 472 deaths in 2015 to 442 deaths in 2016.

throwaway2016a 9y ago
Also, as an aside, heroin and opioids aren't not automatically fatal so that number is a subset of users. An important number is not just deaths but also hospital visits and new users are important.

axlprose 9y ago

Intuitively, this makes sense. Anyone buying heroin/meth/whatever would've likely also been exposed to the option of buying marijuana just as easily among those alternatives when it was still completely illegal. If marijuana was a viable alternative for their drug of choice, I imagine they would've just stuck with that regardless of legalization, since it's cheaper and safer. Hence I wouldn't really expect legalization of any drug X to improve problems with any drug Y in most cases. But if legalization itself helps with drug problems in general, I might expect that only legalizing drug Y would help drug Y's problems.

throwaway2016a 9y ago

> The result has not been the sudden reversal of opioid addiction that you had hoped for. I didn't say "sudden". I think it would take time. Addiction doesn't happen overnight. I am open minded and I am not going to ignore research if the research doesn't support my view. But my hunch is, it is too soon or too much damage has already been done and we need to take other steps to reduce usage not just legalization. Incidentally I thought I saw some research that showed the opposite effect but I can't find the link right now... I'll take a look for it later and see if I can find it.

baldfat 9y ago
When ANYTHING is used to escape from emotional pain be it heroin, pot or food it is wrong and causes problems.

stronglikedan 9y ago

> the sudden reversal of opioid addiction I don't think anyone (even the parent commentor) thinks that would happen. At best, I think we can only hope for prevention, and even that will require a lengthy period reeducation and destigmatization. Speaking from experience, it's nearly impossible to truly reverse opioid addiction. Preventing that addiction in the first place by utilizing other non-or-less-addictive pain control methods, such as marijuana, is our only hope.

hbosch 9y ago

Is there an easy way to collect and cross reference opioid deaths in non-prohibitive states? You seem familiar with the problem and the data - is Colorado's rate of overdose increase proportional to that of places like West Virginia, for instance?