8 ms·

Reading the comments, many people seem unaware that Assange was indeed interviewed by Swedish prosecutors in London [1]. And before that, for years, Assange gav

Reading the comments, many people seem unaware that Assange was indeed interviewed by Swedish prosecutors in London [1]. And before that, for years, Assange gave them that offer, but they refused time and time again (until they reluctantly accepted) [2]. As @belorn noted [3], the prosecutors had 3 options, and given it seems like they didn't have enough to make a case or a plan to continue the investigation, it had to be dropped. Also note, that the UN has sided with Assange. As the confinement in the Embassy is confinement. And he's been unjustly confined for a longer period than the maximum penalty for rape in Sweden [4]. [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ecuador-sweden-assange-idUSKBN1320UV http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ecuador-sweden-assange-idU... [2] "He has offered to be questioned inside the embassy but the Swedish prosecutors only recently agreed." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/11/ecuador-to-let-sweden-interview-julian-assange-at-london-embassy/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/11/ecuador-to-let-sw... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14374161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14374161 [4] https://www.rt.com/news/368746-un-ruling-free-assange/ https://www.rt.com/news/368746-un-ruling-free-assange/

efraim 9y ago
It's nice of him to offer to answer their questions where he chooses, everyone should have that choice. It wasn't Assange that refused to go back to Sweden, it was Sweden to refused to come to Assange.
- cptskippy 9y ago
  I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. His refusal to cooperate with the investigation on Sweden's terms wasn't about the alleged crime itself. His concern was that because he was involved in a criminal investigation, he could be taken into custody by either British or Swedish authorities at which point he could be extradited to the US.
  - seppin 9y ago
    Actually, his 'conditions' for meeting with the Swedish government were absurd. Basically guaranteeing his freedom no matter what. That's not how criminal investigates are done.
    - allover 9y ago
      He is supposedly in fear of being extradited to the US and then stuck in a hole to rot. On paper Guantanamo is 'not how criminal investigations are done' either.
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        > He is supposedly in fear of being extradited to the US and then stuck in a hole to rot. If the US wanted him from Britain for national security reasons (or political reasons masquerading as national security reasons), they wouldn't try to get him extradited to Sweden to do it; the US has closer security cooperation with the UK than Sweden.
        allover 9y ago
        You're overthinking it. Assange only has to be afraid of being arrested, for fear of being extradited somehow. The specifics of the UK/Sweden situation really don't matter.
  - seppin 9y ago
    Actually, his 'conditions' for meeting with the Swedish government were absurd. Basically guaranteeing his freedom no matter what. That's not how criminal investigates are done.
  - bjourne 9y ago
    That was his stated concern. I don't think it makes any sense because he could have been arrested by Swedish or British authorities long before the alleged rapes occurred.
    - allover 9y ago
      Well let's assume he was scared of a random arrest before the allegations. He'd be extra scared when they emerged. Not sure what's to doubt.
      - Avalyst 9y ago
        The fact that he was in Sweden already? And the fact that he fled to the UK, the closest ally of the US in Europe as well as a NATO country, unlike Sweden? And perhaps the fact that he now plans to seek asylum in France, another NATO country? It's very convenient how this conspiracy theory of the US snatching Assange from Sweden cropped up just as he was accused of a crime in Sweden I would say.
        allover 9y ago
        None of this requires a conspiracy theory or 'snatching'. Assange is scared of being arrested, and once he is in custody, being extradited to the US somehow. The Sweden/UK details are irrelevant.
        Avalyst 9y ago
        The conspiracy theory is the one that he will be extradited to the US on "secret charges" as soon as he is arrested in Sweden. Some others in this thread compared it to other CIA grabs, for example one in Italy.
_fizz_buzz_ 9y ago
Lol. Pretty standard to tell courts and investigators: "Hey, how about we meet at my place instead?" (on top of that at a place where the investigators don't have jurisdiction)
- k1m 9y ago
  It actually is pretty standard. Sweden has done it in many other cases. As Wikileaks highlighted when this was made into an issue.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    It's pretty standard to go to the police for questioning when they can't/won't come to you. In the US you can assert your 5th amendment rights not to answer questions, but as far as I know Assange hasn't said he won't answer questions.
  - leogiertz 9y ago
    IANAL but it seems that Sweden has agreements with certain countries to enable questioning of someone who's not in the country. When it comes to EU states it's pretty straight forward. One thing that would complicate this matter is that there doesn't seem to be an agreement between Ecuador and Sweden regarding this. Given that JA was under Ecuadorian jurisdiction it's entirely possible that this was one of the reasons why the prosecutor didn't go down that route initially. Sources (sorry, can only find them in Swedish): http://www.regeringen.se/sveriges-regering/justitiedepartementet/internationellt-rattsligt-samarbete/telefonforhor/ http://www.regeringen.se/sveriges-regering/justitiedeparteme... http://www.regeringen.se/sveriges-regering/justitiedepartementet/internationellt-rattsligt-samarbete/lander-a-o/ http://www.regeringen.se/sveriges-regering/justitiedeparteme...
- point78 9y ago
  For America Yes, for Europe no
valuearb 9y ago
I was unjustly confined in my bedroom this morning because I also refused to leave. In my case, it was fear of making my brats breakfast, not prosecution, but same thing.
staffanj 9y ago
>Reading the comments, many people seem unaware that Assange was indeed interviewed by Swedish prosecutors in London [1]. This is simply not true. The questions was asked by Ecuadorians and had to be approved beforehand. Swedish prosecutors where allowed in the room but could not talk to Assange. IE no follow up questions etc
- k1m 9y ago
  Do you have any sources for how the interview took place? And any indication that it was unfair? (I'm pretty sure Sweden would have refused to do it if they were unhappy with the process.) I don't know who asked the questions, or what the procedure was, but I read the Swedish prosecutor's statement issued today and they do not mention the London interview being an issue.
  - staffanj 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_... >It was established that the interview would be conducted by an Ecuadorian prosecutor, with Isgren and a police officer present. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/sep/14/date-set-questioning-julian-assange-rape-allegation https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/sep/14/date-set-quest... >According to Assange's lawyer, the "shape" of the questions was still being discussed a week before the scheduled interview. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/07/julian-assange-to-be-questioned-by-ecuador-over-allegation https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/07/julian-assange...
    - k1m 9y ago
      Thanks. Your original comment took issue with the statement that Assange was indeed interviewed in London by Swedish prosecutors. You said "This is simply not true." The issue for you seems to be that that the questions being put to Assange weren't actually put to him by Swedish prosecutors directly. Even though they were the Swedish prosecutors' questions being put to him. That doesn't sound like a huge issue to me, and I don't see why it should discount the interview. Especially as the Swedish prosecutors themselves have not taken issue with this aspect of the interview. It seems this was procedure they agreed to.
burkaman 9y ago
No he wasn't, he was interviewed by Ecuadorians. Swedish officers were just "present". > The Swedish assistant prosecutor, Chief Prosecutor Ingrid Isgren, and a Swedish police investigator have been allowed to be present at the interview. They will report the findings to Sweden. Edit: For people wondering what the problem is, Ecuador asked the questions and "[the Swedish prosecutor] is allowed to ask Assange to clarify his answers, but not to put additional questions, and will receive a written transcript of the exchanges from Ecuador after the interview has concluded." - https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/14/julian-assange-to-face-swedish-prosecutors-over-accusation https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/14/julian-assange...
- k1m 9y ago
  Are you suggesting the Swedish prosecution agreed to fly over to London just to sit and watch Ecuador interview Assange? I think we'd have heard more from Sweden about that if that were the case. :p
  - burkaman 9y ago
    Yes, because that's what happened. "The questions were prepared by prosecutors in Sweden, where an arrest warrant for Mr. Assange was issued in 2010, but were posed by a prosecutor from Ecuador under an agreement the two countries made in August." - https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/world/europe/assange-wikileaks-rape-sweden.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/world/europe/assange-wiki... I think a key part of a police interview is asking new questions based on responses and having an actual conversation, which the Swedish prosecutors couldn't do.
    - k1m 9y ago
      Your original comment made it sound like they had no input in the questions being put to Assange. Merely "present" to observe Ecuador. This article suggests Sweden was involved and I don't see anything suggesting the procedure (under "an agreement the two countries made") was problematic. Who asks the questions seems to just be a technicality here.
perseusprime11 9y ago
Weren't the charges politically motivated? The story was too hard to believe. Does anybody have more details?
- panglott 9y ago
  That was Assange's claim, but there are two women in Sweden who say that he sexually victimized them. The details of their claims have been out for a while: IIRC they had consensual sex with him, and later that night he had nonconsensual sex with them. It seems Sweden (rightly) takes sexual assault much more seriously than some other jurisdictions.
  - Sunset 9y ago
    He had consensual sex with them. The sex only became nonconsensual retroactively when they learned about one another. Which is frankly, bullshit.
    - panglott 9y ago
      My understanding is that he had consensual sex with them, they went to sleep, then he had nonconsensual sex with them while they were sleeping. They were individually disturbed by these events, but did not decide to file charges until they compared stories. That's very different from "the sex became nonconsensual retroactively". And I don't think it's uncommon for women brave the consequences of speaking out about sexual assault when they believe there's a pattern of behavior they can protect other women from.
      - allover 9y ago
        > My understanding is that he had consensual sex with them, they went to sleep, then he had nonconsensual sex with them while they were sleeping. Source? Seems to differ from: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange...
easilyBored 9y ago
As the confinement in the Embassy is confinement. And he's been unjustly confined for a longer period than the maximum penalty for rape in Sweden. That's valid if Sweden locked him in the Ecuador Embassy. He went there to shield himself. Personally I think (my opinion, anyway) that the rape charges were work of the CIA, but that's another story.
megamindbrian 9y ago
Plus prison in Sweden is like staying at a Best Western.
- quakeguy 9y ago
  "You can judge a society by how well it treats its prisoners". F. Dostoyevsky

efraim 9y ago

It's nice of him to offer to answer their questions where he chooses, everyone should have that choice. It wasn't Assange that refused to go back to Sweden, it was Sweden to refused to come to Assange.

cptskippy 9y ago
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. His refusal to cooperate with the investigation on Sweden's terms wasn't about the alleged crime itself. His concern was that because he was involved in a criminal investigation, he could be taken into custody by either British or Swedish authorities at which point he could be extradited to the US.
- seppin 9y ago
  Actually, his 'conditions' for meeting with the Swedish government were absurd. Basically guaranteeing his freedom no matter what. That's not how criminal investigates are done.
  - allover 9y ago
    He is supposedly in fear of being extradited to the US and then stuck in a hole to rot. On paper Guantanamo is 'not how criminal investigations are done' either.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > He is supposedly in fear of being extradited to the US and then stuck in a hole to rot. If the US wanted him from Britain for national security reasons (or political reasons masquerading as national security reasons), they wouldn't try to get him extradited to Sweden to do it; the US has closer security cooperation with the UK than Sweden.
      - allover 9y ago
        You're overthinking it. Assange only has to be afraid of being arrested, for fear of being extradited somehow. The specifics of the UK/Sweden situation really don't matter.
- seppin 9y ago
  Actually, his 'conditions' for meeting with the Swedish government were absurd. Basically guaranteeing his freedom no matter what. That's not how criminal investigates are done.
- bjourne 9y ago
  That was his stated concern. I don't think it makes any sense because he could have been arrested by Swedish or British authorities long before the alleged rapes occurred.
  - allover 9y ago
    Well let's assume he was scared of a random arrest before the allegations. He'd be extra scared when they emerged. Not sure what's to doubt.
    - Avalyst 9y ago
      The fact that he was in Sweden already? And the fact that he fled to the UK, the closest ally of the US in Europe as well as a NATO country, unlike Sweden? And perhaps the fact that he now plans to seek asylum in France, another NATO country? It's very convenient how this conspiracy theory of the US snatching Assange from Sweden cropped up just as he was accused of a crime in Sweden I would say.
      - allover 9y ago
        None of this requires a conspiracy theory or 'snatching'. Assange is scared of being arrested, and once he is in custody, being extradited to the US somehow. The Sweden/UK details are irrelevant.
        Avalyst 9y ago
        The conspiracy theory is the one that he will be extradited to the US on "secret charges" as soon as he is arrested in Sweden. Some others in this thread compared it to other CIA grabs, for example one in Italy.

_fizz_buzz_ 9y ago

Lol. Pretty standard to tell courts and investigators: "Hey, how about we meet at my place instead?" (on top of that at a place where the investigators don't have jurisdiction)

k1m 9y ago
It actually is pretty standard. Sweden has done it in many other cases. As Wikileaks highlighted when this was made into an issue.
- valuearb 9y ago
  It's pretty standard to go to the police for questioning when they can't/won't come to you. In the US you can assert your 5th amendment rights not to answer questions, but as far as I know Assange hasn't said he won't answer questions.
- leogiertz 9y ago
  IANAL but it seems that Sweden has agreements with certain countries to enable questioning of someone who's not in the country. When it comes to EU states it's pretty straight forward. One thing that would complicate this matter is that there doesn't seem to be an agreement between Ecuador and Sweden regarding this. Given that JA was under Ecuadorian jurisdiction it's entirely possible that this was one of the reasons why the prosecutor didn't go down that route initially. Sources (sorry, can only find them in Swedish): http://www.regeringen.se/sveriges-regering/justitiedepartementet/internationellt-rattsligt-samarbete/telefonforhor/ http://www.regeringen.se/sveriges-regering/justitiedeparteme... http://www.regeringen.se/sveriges-regering/justitiedepartementet/internationellt-rattsligt-samarbete/lander-a-o/ http://www.regeringen.se/sveriges-regering/justitiedeparteme...
point78 9y ago
For America Yes, for Europe no

valuearb 9y ago

I was unjustly confined in my bedroom this morning because I also refused to leave. In my case, it was fear of making my brats breakfast, not prosecution, but same thing.

staffanj 9y ago

>Reading the comments, many people seem unaware that Assange was indeed interviewed by Swedish prosecutors in London [1]. This is simply not true. The questions was asked by Ecuadorians and had to be approved beforehand. Swedish prosecutors where allowed in the room but could not talk to Assange. IE no follow up questions etc

k1m 9y ago
Do you have any sources for how the interview took place? And any indication that it was unfair? (I'm pretty sure Sweden would have refused to do it if they were unhappy with the process.) I don't know who asked the questions, or what the procedure was, but I read the Swedish prosecutor's statement issued today and they do not mention the London interview being an issue.
- staffanj 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_... >It was established that the interview would be conducted by an Ecuadorian prosecutor, with Isgren and a police officer present. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/sep/14/date-set-questioning-julian-assange-rape-allegation https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/sep/14/date-set-quest... >According to Assange's lawyer, the "shape" of the questions was still being discussed a week before the scheduled interview. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/07/julian-assange-to-be-questioned-by-ecuador-over-allegation https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/07/julian-assange...
  - k1m 9y ago
    Thanks. Your original comment took issue with the statement that Assange was indeed interviewed in London by Swedish prosecutors. You said "This is simply not true." The issue for you seems to be that that the questions being put to Assange weren't actually put to him by Swedish prosecutors directly. Even though they were the Swedish prosecutors' questions being put to him. That doesn't sound like a huge issue to me, and I don't see why it should discount the interview. Especially as the Swedish prosecutors themselves have not taken issue with this aspect of the interview. It seems this was procedure they agreed to.

burkaman 9y ago

No he wasn't, he was interviewed by Ecuadorians. Swedish officers were just "present". > The Swedish assistant prosecutor, Chief Prosecutor Ingrid Isgren, and a Swedish police investigator have been allowed to be present at the interview. They will report the findings to Sweden. Edit: For people wondering what the problem is, Ecuador asked the questions and "[the Swedish prosecutor] is allowed to ask Assange to clarify his answers, but not to put additional questions, and will receive a written transcript of the exchanges from Ecuador after the interview has concluded." - https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/14/julian-assange-to-face-swedish-prosecutors-over-accusation https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/nov/14/julian-assange...

k1m 9y ago
Are you suggesting the Swedish prosecution agreed to fly over to London just to sit and watch Ecuador interview Assange? I think we'd have heard more from Sweden about that if that were the case. :p
- burkaman 9y ago
  Yes, because that's what happened. "The questions were prepared by prosecutors in Sweden, where an arrest warrant for Mr. Assange was issued in 2010, but were posed by a prosecutor from Ecuador under an agreement the two countries made in August." - https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/world/europe/assange-wikileaks-rape-sweden.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/world/europe/assange-wiki... I think a key part of a police interview is asking new questions based on responses and having an actual conversation, which the Swedish prosecutors couldn't do.
  - k1m 9y ago
    Your original comment made it sound like they had no input in the questions being put to Assange. Merely "present" to observe Ecuador. This article suggests Sweden was involved and I don't see anything suggesting the procedure (under "an agreement the two countries made") was problematic. Who asks the questions seems to just be a technicality here.

perseusprime11 9y ago

Weren't the charges politically motivated? The story was too hard to believe. Does anybody have more details?

panglott 9y ago
That was Assange's claim, but there are two women in Sweden who say that he sexually victimized them. The details of their claims have been out for a while: IIRC they had consensual sex with him, and later that night he had nonconsensual sex with them. It seems Sweden (rightly) takes sexual assault much more seriously than some other jurisdictions.
- Sunset 9y ago
  He had consensual sex with them. The sex only became nonconsensual retroactively when they learned about one another. Which is frankly, bullshit.
  - panglott 9y ago
    My understanding is that he had consensual sex with them, they went to sleep, then he had nonconsensual sex with them while they were sleeping. They were individually disturbed by these events, but did not decide to file charges until they compared stories. That's very different from "the sex became nonconsensual retroactively". And I don't think it's uncommon for women brave the consequences of speaking out about sexual assault when they believe there's a pattern of behavior they can protect other women from.
    - allover 9y ago
      > My understanding is that he had consensual sex with them, they went to sleep, then he had nonconsensual sex with them while they were sleeping. Source? Seems to differ from: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange...

easilyBored 9y ago

As the confinement in the Embassy is confinement. And he's been unjustly confined for a longer period than the maximum penalty for rape in Sweden. That's valid if Sweden locked him in the Ecuador Embassy. He went there to shield himself. Personally I think (my opinion, anyway) that the rape charges were work of the CIA, but that's another story.

megamindbrian 9y ago

Plus prison in Sweden is like staying at a Best Western.

quakeguy 9y ago
"You can judge a society by how well it treats its prisoners". F. Dostoyevsky