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I'm not sure how long it's going to take for people to realise: the government is not your friend. They don't want to help you. They want to control you. You ar

I'm not sure how long it's going to take for people to realise: the government is not your friend. They don't want to help you. They want to control you. You are their property. You are registered and you are farmed. Like animals. Ask them nicely to stop, and they well smile back and reply 'think of the children'. Behind their dead eyes are the schemes used to enrich themselves at your expense. Rule after rule applied. Each more insidious than the last. Welcome to dystopia. Enjoy your stay.

nebabyte 9y ago
> I'm not sure how long it's going to take for people to realise: the government is not your friend Slow your roll there m8. Government as an aggregate will of a people can do good. (I say this because a libertarian utopia would basically endgame into gang leaders oppressing people in a similar manner.) "The government" when it is just the people is probably the best way to collectivize problem-solving efforts. (Which is why people have not and will never "learn" that lesson you are hoping they will.) As with anything, it's going to extremes that fucks us.
- discombobulate 9y ago
  OK. I'll just fire up my VPN to route around the 'problem-solving'. I'll use crytocurrency when I can to mitigate the 'good'. > Which is why people have not and will never "learn" that lesson you are hoping they will I don't think anyone will learn anything. We don't walk down the current path because people are learning. I avoid the shitshow the best I can. Money, tech, metathinking. You all can do what you want.
  - nebabyte 9y ago
    > OK. I'll just fire up my VPN to route around the 'problem-solving' https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14374926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14374926 Nonparticipation and avoidance are stopgaps; don't expect stopgaps to save you. Those who participate and invest themselves in making their systems work (and find a place within such system) are not the ones who get stranded without recourse when the governments continue to act in accordance with their own precedents. In this instance, if you were a citizen of Britain and decided your response to this was plugging your ears and using a VPN, I would not put much stock in your success with that venture going forward, as you'd be at the mercy of the gov't not implementing one of the contingencies I listed in that comment or any number of others they could easily justify given their precedent and direction. Cryptocurrency is as vulnerable to the will of the people as anything else. At some point, the point of sale is discoverable - oh hell, I've written on this before too. Head-in-the-sand-ism only gets you so far :)
    - discombobulate 9y ago
      I'll move countries if they get too egregious. I'm not tolerating that bullshit when I'm the one doing the productive work. You call it head-in-the-sand-sim, I call it fuck-off-ism. I'm already to the point where I'm going to have to pay for health services, which are free on the NHS (National Health Service). I pay twice. Once for the govs incompetent service & again for a reasonable service. They are a waste of space in my estimation.
- zebrafish 9y ago
  Government as an aggregate will of the people is just a hivemind. There has to be push and pull; give and take. The 51% cannot completely neglect the wishes of the other 49%. However, on the other hand, I agree with you. Who's to say that private conglomerates have our best interests in mind moreso than the people we elect to represent us? In order to maximize personal freedoms, I believe that there can be no utopia. Debate and compromise and the messiness that comes with those two are essential.
  - discombobulate 9y ago
    > Who's to say that private conglomerates have our best interests in mind moreso than the people we elect to represent us? They surely don't. I can refuse to use a business. If I refuse to do what the government says, they'll take what I have, put me in jail, or use violence on me. > In order to maximize personal freedoms, I believe that there can be no utopia No one suggested any type of utopia.
  - nebabyte 9y ago
    > The 51% cannot completely neglect the wishes of the other 49%. In these cases, the only non-gridlocked solution is fragmentation. It's the survivorship bias - the only issues that continue to paralyze a region are the ones that couldn't be decided one way or the other. In the US' case, this would be granting certain issues to be within states' power to decide upon, and incentivizing people to move and live under the system that works for them. Ultimately, though, that won't happen - because the people who believe in these issues (be they taxation, abortion, LGBetc rights, etc) are in an all-or-nothing mentality whereupon changes have to be enforced federally. America will never admit to itself that it's too diverse and that its various extremes cannot be reconciled, so it's stuck moving at a glacial pace with the eventual hope that the 'average' will move in the direction of progress. Which is all well and good as long as you don't mind the periodic risk of government shutdown or terrible policy precedents being set by lobbyism/financed-campaign promises in the interim.
wfo 9y ago
And yet the alternative, large corporate interests with no bounds or regulations, is so, so much worse. The government is chosen by the people. This is not Saudi Arabia. If people do not want May, if they care about being free, they will vote against her. If you care, you will organize people against her to stop this. If you work at an Internet company, you will push them to lobby against her in the coming election; destruction of the Internet will be bad for everyone. Wikipedia should block the UK and show a black page that tells them what is about to happen, then links them to register to vote. You can change the government instead of whining on the internet about dystopia. A corporation, on the other hand, behaves exactly as you have described, and you will never have any recourse, because the people who own it own it.
- discombobulate 9y ago
  > You can change the government instead of whining on the internet about dystopia. Or I can take my human capital/money & move countries. Let people live in their own mess. Or use tech to route around bullshit. I want as little to do with politics as possible.

nebabyte 9y ago

> I'm not sure how long it's going to take for people to realise: the government is not your friend Slow your roll there m8. Government as an aggregate will of a people can do good. (I say this because a libertarian utopia would basically endgame into gang leaders oppressing people in a similar manner.) "The government" when it is just the people is probably the best way to collectivize problem-solving efforts. (Which is why people have not and will never "learn" that lesson you are hoping they will.) As with anything, it's going to extremes that fucks us.

discombobulate 9y ago
OK. I'll just fire up my VPN to route around the 'problem-solving'. I'll use crytocurrency when I can to mitigate the 'good'. > Which is why people have not and will never "learn" that lesson you are hoping they will I don't think anyone will learn anything. We don't walk down the current path because people are learning. I avoid the shitshow the best I can. Money, tech, metathinking. You all can do what you want.
- nebabyte 9y ago
  > OK. I'll just fire up my VPN to route around the 'problem-solving' https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14374926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14374926 Nonparticipation and avoidance are stopgaps; don't expect stopgaps to save you. Those who participate and invest themselves in making their systems work (and find a place within such system) are not the ones who get stranded without recourse when the governments continue to act in accordance with their own precedents. In this instance, if you were a citizen of Britain and decided your response to this was plugging your ears and using a VPN, I would not put much stock in your success with that venture going forward, as you'd be at the mercy of the gov't not implementing one of the contingencies I listed in that comment or any number of others they could easily justify given their precedent and direction. Cryptocurrency is as vulnerable to the will of the people as anything else. At some point, the point of sale is discoverable - oh hell, I've written on this before too. Head-in-the-sand-ism only gets you so far :)
  - discombobulate 9y ago
    I'll move countries if they get too egregious. I'm not tolerating that bullshit when I'm the one doing the productive work. You call it head-in-the-sand-sim, I call it fuck-off-ism. I'm already to the point where I'm going to have to pay for health services, which are free on the NHS (National Health Service). I pay twice. Once for the govs incompetent service & again for a reasonable service. They are a waste of space in my estimation.
zebrafish 9y ago
Government as an aggregate will of the people is just a hivemind. There has to be push and pull; give and take. The 51% cannot completely neglect the wishes of the other 49%. However, on the other hand, I agree with you. Who's to say that private conglomerates have our best interests in mind moreso than the people we elect to represent us? In order to maximize personal freedoms, I believe that there can be no utopia. Debate and compromise and the messiness that comes with those two are essential.
- discombobulate 9y ago
  > Who's to say that private conglomerates have our best interests in mind moreso than the people we elect to represent us? They surely don't. I can refuse to use a business. If I refuse to do what the government says, they'll take what I have, put me in jail, or use violence on me. > In order to maximize personal freedoms, I believe that there can be no utopia No one suggested any type of utopia.
- nebabyte 9y ago
  > The 51% cannot completely neglect the wishes of the other 49%. In these cases, the only non-gridlocked solution is fragmentation. It's the survivorship bias - the only issues that continue to paralyze a region are the ones that couldn't be decided one way or the other. In the US' case, this would be granting certain issues to be within states' power to decide upon, and incentivizing people to move and live under the system that works for them. Ultimately, though, that won't happen - because the people who believe in these issues (be they taxation, abortion, LGBetc rights, etc) are in an all-or-nothing mentality whereupon changes have to be enforced federally. America will never admit to itself that it's too diverse and that its various extremes cannot be reconciled, so it's stuck moving at a glacial pace with the eventual hope that the 'average' will move in the direction of progress. Which is all well and good as long as you don't mind the periodic risk of government shutdown or terrible policy precedents being set by lobbyism/financed-campaign promises in the interim.

wfo 9y ago

And yet the alternative, large corporate interests with no bounds or regulations, is so, so much worse. The government is chosen by the people. This is not Saudi Arabia. If people do not want May, if they care about being free, they will vote against her. If you care, you will organize people against her to stop this. If you work at an Internet company, you will push them to lobby against her in the coming election; destruction of the Internet will be bad for everyone. Wikipedia should block the UK and show a black page that tells them what is about to happen, then links them to register to vote. You can change the government instead of whining on the internet about dystopia. A corporation, on the other hand, behaves exactly as you have described, and you will never have any recourse, because the people who own it own it.

discombobulate 9y ago
> You can change the government instead of whining on the internet about dystopia. Or I can take my human capital/money & move countries. Let people live in their own mess. Or use tech to route around bullshit. I want as little to do with politics as possible.