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In some ways, yes, but excluding dual clutch transmissions, manual transmissions really do have a performance advantage while rotary phones did not have any adv

by bagels 9y ago

In some ways, yes, but excluding dual clutch transmissions, manual transmissions really do have a performance advantage while rotary phones did not have any advantage over touch tone other than, maybe at one point, cost.

adrianN 9y ago
I doubt that there are many drivers who can outperform a modern automatic transmission.
- eeks 9y ago
  Automatic, yes. Semi-automatic, no. With semi, the driver makes the decision, and the system execute it (the best in class is within 10ms IIRC).
- dragontamer 9y ago
  I disagree. As eeks points out, fully automatic transmissions are kind of awful at making decisions. I have a case when I was driving into work this morning. I got stuck behind a funeral procession going 35 MPH on a 65 MPH interstate highway (Uggghhhhh) I look to my left-mirror, and I see a spot I can feasibly make, I just gotta time it right to get "into" the flow of traffic. So what do I do? I drop to 2nd gear (The Gear ratios on the Ford Focus are kinda "weak"). My engine roars but its cool, because my engine's top-Torque is in the 4000RPM to 6000RPM band. When the "spot" opens up, I floor the acceleration pedal and get in just fine. ---------- A fully automatic vehicle wouldn't "know" that I wanted to "prepare" for the sudden acceleration. It only knows after you push the pedal. A manual driver however, can tell the car to "prepare" for acceleration, so that when you push the accelerator you are 100% ready to go. ------------- Semi-automatic vehicles (including some "sport" CVT engines I've test-driven) would work. The important bit is to be able to change gears way ahead of time BEFORE you push the accelerator.
  - darksim905 9y ago
    Automatic transmissions are better & smarter than you. you may have to drive a little differently if you're driving an automatic in the scenario you described, but saying that it doesn't ''know'' what you wanted to do means either your transmission is virgin & hasn't learned your habits, or, had a different driver for several years & is shifting at the wrong points. This 'ready to go' thing is all hogwash manual elitism.
    - mikeash 9y ago
      Unless it's hooked into a sophisticated camera system, how could an automatic transmission possibly learn that I'm going to want a lot of acceleration in a couple of seconds once this car passes me? By the way, I'm not a manual elitist, but rather an EV elitist. I like not having a transmission at all.
    - dragontamer 9y ago
      Look, a CVT semi-automatic probably would outperform me. I'm no master driver or whatever. But a typical automatic transmission? Dude, I have a huge advantage as a human. I have eyes. I can see things the engine cannot. It takes time for a internal combustion engine to rev up to its ideal torque band. The Ford Focus is a turbocharged engine, which means it only achieves maximum torque above 4000 RPM. Since most automatic transmissions are tuned for fuel efficiency (ie: 2000RPM band or so), they will perform worse when you're trying to accelerate. The manual driver has the advantage that they can choose fuel efficiency (ie: 2000RPM most of the time), or in cases of emergency... kick it into (low) gear for very high RPM to maximize the torque band. ------------- ICE Engines are all about tradeoffs, and the manual driver can choose the RPM-band that best matches the situation. Would a properly tuned automatic beat me in fuel economy? Probably. Would a properly tuned automatic beat me in acceleration? Probably. But no automtaic can be tuned to do both at the same time. Since high-Torque is high-RPM only... and fuel efficiency is low-RPM only... the computer cannot be tuned to try to do both at the same time.

by bagels 9y ago

adrianN 9y ago

I doubt that there are many drivers who can outperform a modern automatic transmission.

eeks 9y ago
Automatic, yes. Semi-automatic, no. With semi, the driver makes the decision, and the system execute it (the best in class is within 10ms IIRC).
dragontamer 9y ago
I disagree. As eeks points out, fully automatic transmissions are kind of awful at making decisions. I have a case when I was driving into work this morning. I got stuck behind a funeral procession going 35 MPH on a 65 MPH interstate highway (Uggghhhhh) I look to my left-mirror, and I see a spot I can feasibly make, I just gotta time it right to get "into" the flow of traffic. So what do I do? I drop to 2nd gear (The Gear ratios on the Ford Focus are kinda "weak"). My engine roars but its cool, because my engine's top-Torque is in the 4000RPM to 6000RPM band. When the "spot" opens up, I floor the acceleration pedal and get in just fine. ---------- A fully automatic vehicle wouldn't "know" that I wanted to "prepare" for the sudden acceleration. It only knows after you push the pedal. A manual driver however, can tell the car to "prepare" for acceleration, so that when you push the accelerator you are 100% ready to go. ------------- Semi-automatic vehicles (including some "sport" CVT engines I've test-driven) would work. The important bit is to be able to change gears way ahead of time BEFORE you push the accelerator.
- darksim905 9y ago
  Automatic transmissions are better & smarter than you. you may have to drive a little differently if you're driving an automatic in the scenario you described, but saying that it doesn't ''know'' what you wanted to do means either your transmission is virgin & hasn't learned your habits, or, had a different driver for several years & is shifting at the wrong points. This 'ready to go' thing is all hogwash manual elitism.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Unless it's hooked into a sophisticated camera system, how could an automatic transmission possibly learn that I'm going to want a lot of acceleration in a couple of seconds once this car passes me? By the way, I'm not a manual elitist, but rather an EV elitist. I like not having a transmission at all.
  - dragontamer 9y ago
    Look, a CVT semi-automatic probably would outperform me. I'm no master driver or whatever. But a typical automatic transmission? Dude, I have a huge advantage as a human. I have eyes. I can see things the engine cannot. It takes time for a internal combustion engine to rev up to its ideal torque band. The Ford Focus is a turbocharged engine, which means it only achieves maximum torque above 4000 RPM. Since most automatic transmissions are tuned for fuel efficiency (ie: 2000RPM band or so), they will perform worse when you're trying to accelerate. The manual driver has the advantage that they can choose fuel efficiency (ie: 2000RPM most of the time), or in cases of emergency... kick it into (low) gear for very high RPM to maximize the torque band. ------------- ICE Engines are all about tradeoffs, and the manual driver can choose the RPM-band that best matches the situation. Would a properly tuned automatic beat me in fuel economy? Probably. Would a properly tuned automatic beat me in acceleration? Probably. But no automtaic can be tuned to do both at the same time. Since high-Torque is high-RPM only... and fuel efficiency is low-RPM only... the computer cannot be tuned to try to do both at the same time.