9 ms·

I have a deep affinity for chess for economic reasons. In 2002 when I went to prison in Florida for 22 months, playing chess for $1/game was my "hustle", and i

by cubano 9y ago

I have a deep affinity for chess for economic reasons. In 2002 when I went to prison in Florida for 22 months, playing chess for $1/game was my "hustle", and it allowed me to eat really well at a panhandle camp that was well known for its terrible chow. Also, a rather odd but very beneficial side effect of my play came into focus...my chess ability seemed to convey a certain status to me by old timers on the yard, and assigned to me a certain "respect" level that basically kept me rather safe during my entire stay. I'll admit...I wasn't always totally virtuous while hustling. I often lost to players in the beginning as to set the hook for future games and profitability. The most interesting part is that, in reality, I kinda suck at chess in the real world by my own demanding standards.

bbcbasic 9y ago
This is interesting. As clever geeks we are sort of protected form the 'big bad world' by living in expenses cities and suburbs, working with other geeks and getting paid well. In prison I guess that counts for nothing. Except you made it count for something and created the same situation for yourself 'from the bootstraps'. I am not going to pretend I know anything about what prison is like though.
- cubano 9y ago
  You should remember that prison is way different then jail. In prison, you have people totally isolated from society, many for a long damn time, and some are actually interested in doing things that improve their lives and of course pass the time. Becoming the best chess player, or the best basketballer, or whatever, on the "yard" is something to aspire to, and if you have something of value to offer these convicts that helps them achieve these goals, they will respect that and pretty much leave you alone since you are helping them. This is how my chess playing helps me...it makes them better. The only way to get better in chess is to either study hard via puzzles and books (boring) or play someone better then you (fun). But the same thing happens in the law libraries or even the computer labs...in the music rooms and on the football fields. Talent is always recognized and smarts are in short supply in general. Not much different from the tech world huh?
  - RugnirViking 9y ago
    > prison is way different then jail. That's interesting, I wasn't aware there was a difference at all. Care to enlighten me?
    - demonshreder 9y ago
      Jail is more of a holding cell - from few hours to few weeks - usually keeping the person in custody until they can be released or imprisoned. Prison is where the person spends their sentence or waits a full sentence - usually in months or years.
Havoc 9y ago
I don't quite see how chess ability translates to safety in prison?
- fao_ 9y ago
  It's cultural. The ability to play chess well is generally taken as an indicator that someone can plan well, think up masterful schemes, and generally out-wit other people. The result is someone that you would either not want to get on the bad side of -- especially if you take into account the fact that they are in prison -- or someone that would be handy to have around if you have anyone with a budding escape plan.
  - Havoc 9y ago
    >generally out-wit other people Pretty sure that in prison it's more about who's ass you can kick than who you can outwit on a chess board when it comes to safety. >handy to have around if you have anyone with a budding escape plan. That sounds more like Prison Break than reality.
    - flash42 9y ago
      I'm pretty sure that with your IQ you can find the inconsistencies in your comment.
  - Bakary 9y ago
    I would assume that the type of planning done in chess is very different from the skills you would need to do well in a prison environment, even if being good chess often implies a good intelligence baseline. Since I don't know much at all about actual prison life, I can't confirm this hypothesis. In any case, I doubt that the Machiavellian planning that is a familiar sight on TV translates well to the real world of an inmate.
- cubano 9y ago
  Yeah it sure isn't immediately obvious that this would be so, but without a doubt it is true because the same experience has occurred several times since. So I have an escape charge in Florida (escape, not absconding) for not returning to a county work release center in Orlando many years ago. This was a really dumb thing to do because now, whenever I'm jailed I often get thrown in with the "high-security" inmates whom are also known as the murderers and anyone looking at over 20-years if convicted. My last time through the system in Florida, I must have spent 4-5 hours a day playing chess with an alleged murderer whom was infatuated with the game and trying very hard to get better. I was in for some possession charges...bullshit really but because the old escape charge there I was. This man had deep respect in the jail as his brother was at FSP/Raiford actually on death row for an execution-style murder committed about a decade earlier. The alleged murder this man committed was related to that very incident. Anyway, I had played his brother for several months back "in the day" and was the only person in the jail who could beat him, and to be honest, I became somewhat a legend in C-block for my game. Remember, these people in this block often sit in county jail for 3-5 years waiting for trial and such, so the "institutional memory" actually lasts a long time in such a dismal place. Long story somewhat short: By spending so many hours teaching this man to play much much better, he put the word out that no one was to fuck with me, and I was not only really safe, but was fed and taken care of by the group. Very odd experience, but every word true.
MileyCyrax 9y ago
What rating would you need for something like that?
- cubano 9y ago
  On lichess I rate about a 1740 or so.
  - placeybordeaux 9y ago
    1740 is good!
    - ganeshkrishnan 9y ago
      Lichess does not use standard rating system. I think it uses Glicko. A 1740 on lichess would be around 1600 in standard ELO (which itself is not a bad rating)
      - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
        It took me the longest time to figure out that "lichess" was not a female lich.
      - arikrak 9y ago
        It's hard to compare Lichess-rated players to e.g. FIDE or USCF rated players, since they have different populations. It's much easier to play on Lichess than in tournaments, so Lichess probably gives higher ratings. But one could get a sample of people rated on both sites to get an idea of the rating conversion.
      - shmageggy 9y ago
        Actually more like 1400-1500 USCF according to these survey results https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GcVG_slcTUJfi0sQMeaxes_jwYFBrfWaR1ejSSOH-SM/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GcVG_slcTUJfi0sQMeax...
da02 9y ago
Unrelated question: Do you see any similarities between prison life and corp/work environments? Did you get mistreated by any of the prison employees?
- tudorconstantin 9y ago
  I haven't been to prison, but I've worked in corporations. Let me tell you my closely related story: My very first job as a programmer was at a company which just started an internal chess championship. I entered the competition mainly to get to know the colleagues and have some fun, expecting them to be very strong players. At the beginning of every match I asked them the question "IIRC the knight moves in an L shape, right?". That question was enough to make my opponents brutally underestimate my game. By the time they realised the error they made, they were in deep trouble: 5-6 pawns down, very difficult to come back. I've got my first 3 or 4 games easily won this way and the next player said something like "haha, yeah, cut the bullshit". I won that game too, but much harder. That first easy victories made win the championship in the end and got me the reputation of a smart guy. As a junior software developer (among 12 other juniors who joined the company the same day as me), it was a nice way to make myself noticed.
  - SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
    Maybe unrelated how does one go about learning chess passed "the knight moves in an L-shape"
    - Nition 9y ago
      Learn the moves for the other pieces. :P
    - tudorconstantin 9y ago
      I was acting like I was one who knew the rules but was "just making sure I remember them correctly"
    - lmm 9y ago
      Mainly practice. Once you've got a sense of your play style you can find openings that fit it and study the books on them, and you should do the endgame drills at some point (at least you should know how to win vs a lone king with a king and rook (easy), king and two bishops (tricky), king and pawn (position-dependent, not always possible) - I've literally never needed to do king, bishop and knight). But the main thing is to just play a lot of games.

by cubano 9y ago

bbcbasic 9y ago

This is interesting. As clever geeks we are sort of protected form the 'big bad world' by living in expenses cities and suburbs, working with other geeks and getting paid well. In prison I guess that counts for nothing. Except you made it count for something and created the same situation for yourself 'from the bootstraps'. I am not going to pretend I know anything about what prison is like though.

cubano 9y ago
You should remember that prison is way different then jail. In prison, you have people totally isolated from society, many for a long damn time, and some are actually interested in doing things that improve their lives and of course pass the time. Becoming the best chess player, or the best basketballer, or whatever, on the "yard" is something to aspire to, and if you have something of value to offer these convicts that helps them achieve these goals, they will respect that and pretty much leave you alone since you are helping them. This is how my chess playing helps me...it makes them better. The only way to get better in chess is to either study hard via puzzles and books (boring) or play someone better then you (fun). But the same thing happens in the law libraries or even the computer labs...in the music rooms and on the football fields. Talent is always recognized and smarts are in short supply in general. Not much different from the tech world huh?
- RugnirViking 9y ago
  > prison is way different then jail. That's interesting, I wasn't aware there was a difference at all. Care to enlighten me?
  - demonshreder 9y ago
    Jail is more of a holding cell - from few hours to few weeks - usually keeping the person in custody until they can be released or imprisoned. Prison is where the person spends their sentence or waits a full sentence - usually in months or years.

Havoc 9y ago

I don't quite see how chess ability translates to safety in prison?

fao_ 9y ago
It's cultural. The ability to play chess well is generally taken as an indicator that someone can plan well, think up masterful schemes, and generally out-wit other people. The result is someone that you would either not want to get on the bad side of -- especially if you take into account the fact that they are in prison -- or someone that would be handy to have around if you have anyone with a budding escape plan.
- Havoc 9y ago
  >generally out-wit other people Pretty sure that in prison it's more about who's ass you can kick than who you can outwit on a chess board when it comes to safety. >handy to have around if you have anyone with a budding escape plan. That sounds more like Prison Break than reality.
  - flash42 9y ago
    I'm pretty sure that with your IQ you can find the inconsistencies in your comment.
- Bakary 9y ago
  I would assume that the type of planning done in chess is very different from the skills you would need to do well in a prison environment, even if being good chess often implies a good intelligence baseline. Since I don't know much at all about actual prison life, I can't confirm this hypothesis. In any case, I doubt that the Machiavellian planning that is a familiar sight on TV translates well to the real world of an inmate.
cubano 9y ago
Yeah it sure isn't immediately obvious that this would be so, but without a doubt it is true because the same experience has occurred several times since. So I have an escape charge in Florida (escape, not absconding) for not returning to a county work release center in Orlando many years ago. This was a really dumb thing to do because now, whenever I'm jailed I often get thrown in with the "high-security" inmates whom are also known as the murderers and anyone looking at over 20-years if convicted. My last time through the system in Florida, I must have spent 4-5 hours a day playing chess with an alleged murderer whom was infatuated with the game and trying very hard to get better. I was in for some possession charges...bullshit really but because the old escape charge there I was. This man had deep respect in the jail as his brother was at FSP/Raiford actually on death row for an execution-style murder committed about a decade earlier. The alleged murder this man committed was related to that very incident. Anyway, I had played his brother for several months back "in the day" and was the only person in the jail who could beat him, and to be honest, I became somewhat a legend in C-block for my game. Remember, these people in this block often sit in county jail for 3-5 years waiting for trial and such, so the "institutional memory" actually lasts a long time in such a dismal place. Long story somewhat short: By spending so many hours teaching this man to play much much better, he put the word out that no one was to fuck with me, and I was not only really safe, but was fed and taken care of by the group. Very odd experience, but every word true.

MileyCyrax 9y ago

What rating would you need for something like that?

cubano 9y ago
On lichess I rate about a 1740 or so.
- placeybordeaux 9y ago
  1740 is good!
  - ganeshkrishnan 9y ago
    Lichess does not use standard rating system. I think it uses Glicko. A 1740 on lichess would be around 1600 in standard ELO (which itself is not a bad rating)
    - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
      It took me the longest time to figure out that "lichess" was not a female lich.
    - arikrak 9y ago
      It's hard to compare Lichess-rated players to e.g. FIDE or USCF rated players, since they have different populations. It's much easier to play on Lichess than in tournaments, so Lichess probably gives higher ratings. But one could get a sample of people rated on both sites to get an idea of the rating conversion.
    - shmageggy 9y ago
      Actually more like 1400-1500 USCF according to these survey results https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GcVG_slcTUJfi0sQMeaxes_jwYFBrfWaR1ejSSOH-SM/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GcVG_slcTUJfi0sQMeax...

da02 9y ago

Unrelated question: Do you see any similarities between prison life and corp/work environments? Did you get mistreated by any of the prison employees?

tudorconstantin 9y ago
I haven't been to prison, but I've worked in corporations. Let me tell you my closely related story: My very first job as a programmer was at a company which just started an internal chess championship. I entered the competition mainly to get to know the colleagues and have some fun, expecting them to be very strong players. At the beginning of every match I asked them the question "IIRC the knight moves in an L shape, right?". That question was enough to make my opponents brutally underestimate my game. By the time they realised the error they made, they were in deep trouble: 5-6 pawns down, very difficult to come back. I've got my first 3 or 4 games easily won this way and the next player said something like "haha, yeah, cut the bullshit". I won that game too, but much harder. That first easy victories made win the championship in the end and got me the reputation of a smart guy. As a junior software developer (among 12 other juniors who joined the company the same day as me), it was a nice way to make myself noticed.
- SimbaOnSteroids 9y ago
  Maybe unrelated how does one go about learning chess passed "the knight moves in an L-shape"
  - Nition 9y ago
    Learn the moves for the other pieces. :P
  - tudorconstantin 9y ago
    I was acting like I was one who knew the rules but was "just making sure I remember them correctly"
  - lmm 9y ago
    Mainly practice. Once you've got a sense of your play style you can find openings that fit it and study the books on them, and you should do the endgame drills at some point (at least you should know how to win vs a lone king with a king and rook (easy), king and two bishops (tricky), king and pawn (position-dependent, not always possible) - I've literally never needed to do king, bishop and knight). But the main thing is to just play a lot of games.