4 ms·

The chart makes me sad. My Subaru BRZ (2013-) "sports car" comes with only 200hp. Many people looking for more power install aftermarket superchargers.

prostoalex 9y ago
Feels like electrics are pulling the averages up. Tesla's current top-of-the-line Model S P100D is 588hp and even their mundane family baby-seat-in-the-back sedans come at above 300hp.
- semi-extrinsic 9y ago
  Also, both Teslas and several hybrid car manufacturers report power figures that are physically impossible to obtain in the actual car - either because the battery can't deliver enough power, or because of arithmetically summing power figures of two motors that attain peak power at very different operating points. Case in point, you quote the actual P100D measured power as 588hp, but the marketing wank says it's 760hp. That's a big difference. There was a class-action lawsuit by 126 owners in Norway against Tesla over this on the P85D, and over the fact that they use "rolling start" 0-60 times; Tesla settled that in dec. 2016, compensated the owners, and changed their Norwegian marketing. (Wikipedia Model S page has references under the "Controversies" heading.)
762236 9y ago
That's what makes the car perfect. Kudos to it's designers for resisting the demands for more power every year. There are other cars that offer more power (too much for the street in probably every case).
sndean 9y ago
Yeah, but it's only ~2800 lbs. And my FRS can easily average 40+ mpg on road trips. Sticking with 200hp seems like a good choice.
bacongobbler 9y ago
Same thing could be said about the Toyota AE86 in its day. The AE86 came out around the same time when the e30 M3, the mk3 supra, and the FC RX7 were also being released. The AE86 made "only" 128hp, the RX7 turbo made 200hp, and the mk3 supra made 230hp. Guess which one became the icon of drifting in Japan? Take one look at the grassroots drift scene over at Ebisu Circuit and you'll notice that nearly everyone's running Silvias, Skyline GTSTs and AE86s. Hardly anyone is taking cars with over 300hp to the track... Too much power.
- afuchs 9y ago
  The Subaru BRZ, and its Toyota equivalent (FRS/86/GT86/FT86) sharing the same platform, was designed to be the spiritual successor to the AE86.
  - bacongobbler 9y ago
    yes, that's why I pointed it out. :)
chadgeidel 9y ago
A nearly perfect car. I say "nearly" because of the slight torque dip in the mid-range. It's too bad no one is buying them because they don't have "enough power". I am waffling on either a BRZ or a MX-5. I'm leaning towards the MX-5 because it seems like the BRZ/GT-86 may not be around much longer.
- timelol 9y ago
  Those are both great cars in their element. When the MX-5 debuted in 1989 it had IIRC 110 horsepower, and for many motorsports purposes was utterly dominant. There is something to be said for balance in a sports car.
- bacongobbler 9y ago
  I once owned an FR-S (totaled from someone rear-ending it on the highway, going to buy another next year) and currently I own a '90 Miata and a '94 Skyline GT-R. Comparing between the ND Miata and the BRZ I would go for the BRZ in a heartbeat. Two reasons: 1. The NC/ND Miata crowd is a much older demographic, keeping their precious car in the garage over the winter, keeping it bone stock, bringing it to the dealership instead of working on it themselves and only taking it out on sunny days. I don't click with that crowd. 2. The aftermarket support for the FR-S/BRZ/GT86 is completely overwhelming. Want a completely different exhaust setup or want to run flex fuel? Turbocharged? Supercharged? There's quite a few choices to select from. ND Miatas have some selection, but not nearly at the same cost or availability. You can get rid of that torque dip quite easily if it's bothering you, by the way. Just need new UEL exhaust headers and a tune. You'll even make a bit more power when you're finished with it, so win/win. Personally I'm loving that people aren't buying them because it's been keeping the barrier of entry way down. They truly are remarkable cars... There's a lot more to a car than the numbers. The suspension/geometry and chassis with 55/45 weight distribution, MacPherson struts, Torsen limited slip differential comes standard, and low center of gravity due to its boxer engine are top-notch compared to something like a 370Z.
  - chadgeidel 9y ago
    Hmm, that's surprising. I am a bit of a track rat and figured the Miata had more aftermarket support. Flyin' Miata has a ton of parts and upgrades. I don't see a lot of Miatas on the track where I am, the ones I do see have a substantial number of mods. Most of the BRZ/GT-86/FR-S I see in my neck of the woods are all blinged out visually with not many good "handling/performance" mods (aside from giant supercharger or turbocharger setups which IMHO is the last thing one should modify).
falsedan 9y ago
> "sports car" lol Why'd you get a BRZ? Bonus question: uh why did Toyota/Subaru make them
- stupidhn 9y ago
  >Why'd you get a BRZ? Good looking (subjective), reliable, quick, fun to drive? Why did you buy your car?
  - falsedan 9y ago
    What's a car I like the look of a BRZ but it's wildly impractical for what I need (small family car than can go on garbage roads).

prostoalex 9y ago

Feels like electrics are pulling the averages up. Tesla's current top-of-the-line Model S P100D is 588hp and even their mundane family baby-seat-in-the-back sedans come at above 300hp.

semi-extrinsic 9y ago
Also, both Teslas and several hybrid car manufacturers report power figures that are physically impossible to obtain in the actual car - either because the battery can't deliver enough power, or because of arithmetically summing power figures of two motors that attain peak power at very different operating points. Case in point, you quote the actual P100D measured power as 588hp, but the marketing wank says it's 760hp. That's a big difference. There was a class-action lawsuit by 126 owners in Norway against Tesla over this on the P85D, and over the fact that they use "rolling start" 0-60 times; Tesla settled that in dec. 2016, compensated the owners, and changed their Norwegian marketing. (Wikipedia Model S page has references under the "Controversies" heading.)

762236 9y ago

That's what makes the car perfect. Kudos to it's designers for resisting the demands for more power every year. There are other cars that offer more power (too much for the street in probably every case).

sndean 9y ago

Yeah, but it's only ~2800 lbs. And my FRS can easily average 40+ mpg on road trips. Sticking with 200hp seems like a good choice.

bacongobbler 9y ago

Same thing could be said about the Toyota AE86 in its day. The AE86 came out around the same time when the e30 M3, the mk3 supra, and the FC RX7 were also being released. The AE86 made "only" 128hp, the RX7 turbo made 200hp, and the mk3 supra made 230hp. Guess which one became the icon of drifting in Japan? Take one look at the grassroots drift scene over at Ebisu Circuit and you'll notice that nearly everyone's running Silvias, Skyline GTSTs and AE86s. Hardly anyone is taking cars with over 300hp to the track... Too much power.

afuchs 9y ago
The Subaru BRZ, and its Toyota equivalent (FRS/86/GT86/FT86) sharing the same platform, was designed to be the spiritual successor to the AE86.
- bacongobbler 9y ago
  yes, that's why I pointed it out. :)

chadgeidel 9y ago

A nearly perfect car. I say "nearly" because of the slight torque dip in the mid-range. It's too bad no one is buying them because they don't have "enough power". I am waffling on either a BRZ or a MX-5. I'm leaning towards the MX-5 because it seems like the BRZ/GT-86 may not be around much longer.

timelol 9y ago
Those are both great cars in their element. When the MX-5 debuted in 1989 it had IIRC 110 horsepower, and for many motorsports purposes was utterly dominant. There is something to be said for balance in a sports car.
bacongobbler 9y ago
I once owned an FR-S (totaled from someone rear-ending it on the highway, going to buy another next year) and currently I own a '90 Miata and a '94 Skyline GT-R. Comparing between the ND Miata and the BRZ I would go for the BRZ in a heartbeat. Two reasons: 1. The NC/ND Miata crowd is a much older demographic, keeping their precious car in the garage over the winter, keeping it bone stock, bringing it to the dealership instead of working on it themselves and only taking it out on sunny days. I don't click with that crowd. 2. The aftermarket support for the FR-S/BRZ/GT86 is completely overwhelming. Want a completely different exhaust setup or want to run flex fuel? Turbocharged? Supercharged? There's quite a few choices to select from. ND Miatas have some selection, but not nearly at the same cost or availability. You can get rid of that torque dip quite easily if it's bothering you, by the way. Just need new UEL exhaust headers and a tune. You'll even make a bit more power when you're finished with it, so win/win. Personally I'm loving that people aren't buying them because it's been keeping the barrier of entry way down. They truly are remarkable cars... There's a lot more to a car than the numbers. The suspension/geometry and chassis with 55/45 weight distribution, MacPherson struts, Torsen limited slip differential comes standard, and low center of gravity due to its boxer engine are top-notch compared to something like a 370Z.
- chadgeidel 9y ago
  Hmm, that's surprising. I am a bit of a track rat and figured the Miata had more aftermarket support. Flyin' Miata has a ton of parts and upgrades. I don't see a lot of Miatas on the track where I am, the ones I do see have a substantial number of mods. Most of the BRZ/GT-86/FR-S I see in my neck of the woods are all blinged out visually with not many good "handling/performance" mods (aside from giant supercharger or turbocharger setups which IMHO is the last thing one should modify).

falsedan 9y ago

> "sports car" lol Why'd you get a BRZ? Bonus question: uh why did Toyota/Subaru make them

stupidhn 9y ago
>Why'd you get a BRZ? Good looking (subjective), reliable, quick, fun to drive? Why did you buy your car?
- falsedan 9y ago
  What's a car I like the look of a BRZ but it's wildly impractical for what I need (small family car than can go on garbage roads).