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I'm curious about this. What does it take to make a "good" salesperson by this definition? Just grit and experience, or some innate and uncommon skill? I know t

I'm curious about this. What does it take to make a "good" salesperson by this definition? Just grit and experience, or some innate and uncommon skill? I know there are people who make millions working in sales, but I guess I'm just wondering how common that actually is. Should a reasonably motivated and intelligent salesperson early in their career expect to be making $200k+ a few years in, or does that take a very unusual level of luck/skill/dedication to turn it into a lucrative career?

brandonmenc 9y ago
Every great salesperson I know is fearless in any social situation. They can strike up a conversation with anyone, anywhere, anytime - effortlessly. You can't teach that. There are a host of other qualities, but this strikes me the most "inborn" one.
- richardbatty 9y ago
  You can teach that, or at least learn it, with cognitive behavioural therapy for social anxiety and practice in progressively more difficult situations.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    I think there are limits. I compare it to athletics. With hard work I can double my bench press but there are people who can bench even more without ever training. If these people work hard in addition they can perform on a level that's not achievable for most of us. I think it's the same for sales or a lot of other professions. People with talent can go much further.
    - dismantlethesun 9y ago
      I think this is true too, just that with sales unlike athletics, the field is more inclusive (e.g. specialized knowledge in the product field may be more important than absolute speech skills), and also higher populated leading to there being more positions for people who are merely above average, rather than superhuman.
  - seppin 9y ago
    sure you can be fearless, but not in a way that is productive. you just become more annoying
  - nunez 9y ago
    ehhhhh sort of it is very hard to replicate the behavior of someone that just loves being around people. i can usually tell who is a "natural" and who isn't (i.e. those that went through therapy, coaching and the like) learning how to be around people can't really be done in a safe space since the world at large in unsafe. people will say dumb shit at you. people will cut you off. people will do unexpectedly nice (or mean) things. everyone is different. the only way to truly learn these skills is to get out there and be vulnerable. i can see how classes and sessions can get you to a point at which one is comfortable enough to even BEGIN doing this (I went to a few social anxiety meetups with friends), but that alone isn't enough. getting to the root of that anxiety with a psychologist is more effective, in my (limited) opinion, but that can be expensive for many you CAN get pretty far on the basics though. most people like being around someone that is humorous and makes them feel good about themselves. you can go REALLY far by finding what someone really likes to talk about and letting them talk (while asking questions throughout) podcasts with interviews from journalists or news companies helped me with this a lot
    - nunez 9y ago
      Oh! I forgot two really important ones: understanding what incentivises people and being able to tell a RELATABLE story around those incentives. People LOVE stories they can see themselves in. Gets their imaginations all worked up. Also, EVERYBODY has incentives. Money, becoming a 10x developer, travelling the world, being a better parent. All of these are incentives. If you don't believe me, check this out. Remember the last time you got pitched a timeshare? (If you ever went on a heavily discounted Disney vacation, you almost certainly did.) The salesperson working the room will spend at least the first 15-30 minutes setting the scene. "You. Puerto Rico. Corona. Beach. Need I say more?" type stuff. Pyramid marketing salespeople do the exact same thing to build their downlines (i.e. hire more people under them). They spend 80% of their presentation on how much you can make and maybe 10% on what they're selling (the other 10% is lost to heat). Luxury brands are THE MASTERS at this. (I would not be surprised if hip hop icons got some kind of commission/free clothing from high-falutin haute fashion brands; luxury setting is all they do!) They seem cheesy, but people eat stories up (and, consequently, buy product) like no tomorrow.
- YCode 9y ago
  Social skills can be learned. It might take a while to catch up to someone who has been practicing a skill like that all their life, but that's true of anything.
- jabv 9y ago
  What a great observation! I can teach you that skill. For $80/hour. :)
- dismantlethesun 9y ago
  Seemingly effortlessly. I know some salespeople today, who during highschool were the most introverted, least talkative guys or girls in the world. Their success is due to practice both in work (entry level sales jobs require non-stop talking for 8+ hours per day, as opposed to entry-level engineering where there are 4+ hours of quiet time), and outside of work (e.g. debate teams, tea clubs, book clubs, meetups, networking events, speech therapists, etc.)
inuhj 9y ago
Great sales people are just the right amount of annoying. They're masters of follow up.
greedo 9y ago
I had a friend in high school who ended up going into sales and retiring at 40. He was comfortable talking to anyone in almost any situation. We called him "Silk." He got into selling enterprise software and made a killing. It didn't hurt that he grew up the son of someone quite wealthy in investment circles, so his risk tolerance was pretty high.
nunez 9y ago
Handling a shitload of frequent rejection generally well, understanding your clients/customers' needs inside out and how your business fits into their solutions and generally being good at talking to/reading people, i.e. qualities that most engineers don't have. NOTE: People can be good at these things without being extroverted, unlike what many people think (and I thought until very recently) It really comes down to making people (a) think that your shit (mostly YOU) will help them with their problems and (b) feel confident in trusting you. As for comp: Most people in sales jobs go through ups and downs in their annual comp largely because most of it comes from commission and bonus. You could make >$1M one year and <$100k the next. Technical sales are more stable since salaries tend to be higher, but comp is still highly variable. Also, unlike engineering where one's performance criteria are somewhat superfluous, sales is a very numbers-driven job. Most have quotas they need to hit with bonuses for every level above that. Not hitting your quota == not having a job next month/year in some places.

brandonmenc 9y ago

Every great salesperson I know is fearless in any social situation. They can strike up a conversation with anyone, anywhere, anytime - effortlessly. You can't teach that. There are a host of other qualities, but this strikes me the most "inborn" one.

richardbatty 9y ago
You can teach that, or at least learn it, with cognitive behavioural therapy for social anxiety and practice in progressively more difficult situations.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  I think there are limits. I compare it to athletics. With hard work I can double my bench press but there are people who can bench even more without ever training. If these people work hard in addition they can perform on a level that's not achievable for most of us. I think it's the same for sales or a lot of other professions. People with talent can go much further.
  - dismantlethesun 9y ago
    I think this is true too, just that with sales unlike athletics, the field is more inclusive (e.g. specialized knowledge in the product field may be more important than absolute speech skills), and also higher populated leading to there being more positions for people who are merely above average, rather than superhuman.
- seppin 9y ago
  sure you can be fearless, but not in a way that is productive. you just become more annoying
- nunez 9y ago
  ehhhhh sort of it is very hard to replicate the behavior of someone that just loves being around people. i can usually tell who is a "natural" and who isn't (i.e. those that went through therapy, coaching and the like) learning how to be around people can't really be done in a safe space since the world at large in unsafe. people will say dumb shit at you. people will cut you off. people will do unexpectedly nice (or mean) things. everyone is different. the only way to truly learn these skills is to get out there and be vulnerable. i can see how classes and sessions can get you to a point at which one is comfortable enough to even BEGIN doing this (I went to a few social anxiety meetups with friends), but that alone isn't enough. getting to the root of that anxiety with a psychologist is more effective, in my (limited) opinion, but that can be expensive for many you CAN get pretty far on the basics though. most people like being around someone that is humorous and makes them feel good about themselves. you can go REALLY far by finding what someone really likes to talk about and letting them talk (while asking questions throughout) podcasts with interviews from journalists or news companies helped me with this a lot
  - nunez 9y ago
    Oh! I forgot two really important ones: understanding what incentivises people and being able to tell a RELATABLE story around those incentives. People LOVE stories they can see themselves in. Gets their imaginations all worked up. Also, EVERYBODY has incentives. Money, becoming a 10x developer, travelling the world, being a better parent. All of these are incentives. If you don't believe me, check this out. Remember the last time you got pitched a timeshare? (If you ever went on a heavily discounted Disney vacation, you almost certainly did.) The salesperson working the room will spend at least the first 15-30 minutes setting the scene. "You. Puerto Rico. Corona. Beach. Need I say more?" type stuff. Pyramid marketing salespeople do the exact same thing to build their downlines (i.e. hire more people under them). They spend 80% of their presentation on how much you can make and maybe 10% on what they're selling (the other 10% is lost to heat). Luxury brands are THE MASTERS at this. (I would not be surprised if hip hop icons got some kind of commission/free clothing from high-falutin haute fashion brands; luxury setting is all they do!) They seem cheesy, but people eat stories up (and, consequently, buy product) like no tomorrow.
YCode 9y ago
Social skills can be learned. It might take a while to catch up to someone who has been practicing a skill like that all their life, but that's true of anything.
jabv 9y ago
What a great observation! I can teach you that skill. For $80/hour. :)
dismantlethesun 9y ago
Seemingly effortlessly. I know some salespeople today, who during highschool were the most introverted, least talkative guys or girls in the world. Their success is due to practice both in work (entry level sales jobs require non-stop talking for 8+ hours per day, as opposed to entry-level engineering where there are 4+ hours of quiet time), and outside of work (e.g. debate teams, tea clubs, book clubs, meetups, networking events, speech therapists, etc.)

inuhj 9y ago

Great sales people are just the right amount of annoying. They're masters of follow up.

greedo 9y ago

I had a friend in high school who ended up going into sales and retiring at 40. He was comfortable talking to anyone in almost any situation. We called him "Silk." He got into selling enterprise software and made a killing. It didn't hurt that he grew up the son of someone quite wealthy in investment circles, so his risk tolerance was pretty high.

nunez 9y ago

Handling a shitload of frequent rejection generally well, understanding your clients/customers' needs inside out and how your business fits into their solutions and generally being good at talking to/reading people, i.e. qualities that most engineers don't have. NOTE: People can be good at these things without being extroverted, unlike what many people think (and I thought until very recently) It really comes down to making people (a) think that your shit (mostly YOU) will help them with their problems and (b) feel confident in trusting you. As for comp: Most people in sales jobs go through ups and downs in their annual comp largely because most of it comes from commission and bonus. You could make >$1M one year and <$100k the next. Technical sales are more stable since salaries tend to be higher, but comp is still highly variable. Also, unlike engineering where one's performance criteria are somewhat superfluous, sales is a very numbers-driven job. Most have quotas they need to hit with bonuses for every level above that. Not hitting your quota == not having a job next month/year in some places.