10 ms·

I know it's pretty popular to hate on Mongodb now (even more so than it was to love on Mongodb 4 years ago), but there are still areas where it's better than a

by fnayr 9y ago

I know it's pretty popular to hate on Mongodb now (even more so than it was to love on Mongodb 4 years ago), but there are still areas where it's better than a relational db. In game development, it's extremely helpful (especially as an "indie") to change the structure on a whim so easily. Also based on the design of the game I'm working on, I believe the document structure captures the structure of the data so much better than if I was forced to make a bunch of tables. This aides in understanding the representation of our game's data, and I believe (but haven't tested) it will be faster than a relational db for my use case, but that's an ancillary benefit anyway.

ssijak 9y ago
But the posters above you said that JSON and JSONB types in Postgres, and functionality around them, eliminated the need to use other databases for document type data. What you are describing can be done with PostgreSQL. One thing that is missing is better client libraries that make use of those data types. Morphia wins for now in that regard.
- fnayr 9y ago
  My claim wasn't that it didn't fulfill their needs, it was that it doesn't fulfill all needs (gamedev is one example that I'm familiar with). Postgres storing JSON types != All mongo functionality I'm sure I could achieve everything I'm doing in mongo by some roundabout way in Postgres, but if you're doing a large amount of reading/modifying partial fields within JSON structure, it's the exact use case for mongo.
  - jerrysievert 9y ago
    https://www.github.com/JerrySievert/MongoLike https://www.github.com/JerrySievert/MongoLike that said, I actually use partial JSONB updates on a regular basis, but I tend to use PLV8 to do the heavy lifting.
    - threeseed 9y ago
      What is the point of posting that ? (1) It's a proof of concept, (2) it hasn't been updated in 3 years and (3) it still isn't the same syntax as MongoDB. The point still remains that PostgreSQL isn't just a 1-1 replacement for MongoDB which is pretty common sense to me anyway.
      - jerrysievert 9y ago
        Wow, that's a pretty hostile response. 1) it's a proof of concept that others have improved upon to show that you can indeed replace the functionality of mongo that most developers tend to rely on. 2) neither has mongodb at that level 3) that's correct, you need to actually use the term SELECT when you use the functions and you are correct, pg is missing the random data loss that comes with mongo. it will never be 1-1 in regards to that. EDITING TO ADD: the important part is the note (the bulk of the comment) that I'm updating partial JSONB data on a very regular basis, and do it using PLV8, getting rid of the need for an unreliable database and instead using exactly what this news story is about.
- philliphaydon 9y ago
  Marten for .net
- manigandham 9y ago
  .NET has great support with Marten: http://jasperfx.github.io/marten/ http://jasperfx.github.io/marten/
htsh 9y ago
A small independent game is where I've used it before as well. And currently I'm working on an app/game sort of thing where it makes a lot of sense because we're iterating often and fast. I like that it kinda gets out of my way and just works, though perhaps I would not so much had I experienced the data loss others speak of.
- fnayr 9y ago
  Yeah I've read some horror stories about that too. I think that the improvements to concurrency (ala WiredTiger), will help wth that, as well as making sure to think about possible concurrency issues from the outset, as I've tried to do.
the_why_of_y 9y ago
Have you heard of ToroDB? FWIW they have benchmarks that claim it's running faster on top of Postgres than MongoDB does natively. "ToroDB Server It is a MongoDB-compatible server that supports speaks the MongoDB Wire Protocol (and therefore can be used with the same drivers used to connect to any standard MongoDB server) but stores your data into a reliable and trusted ACID database." https://github.com/torodb/server https://github.com/torodb/server

by fnayr 9y ago

ssijak 9y ago

But the posters above you said that JSON and JSONB types in Postgres, and functionality around them, eliminated the need to use other databases for document type data. What you are describing can be done with PostgreSQL. One thing that is missing is better client libraries that make use of those data types. Morphia wins for now in that regard.

fnayr 9y ago
My claim wasn't that it didn't fulfill their needs, it was that it doesn't fulfill all needs (gamedev is one example that I'm familiar with). Postgres storing JSON types != All mongo functionality I'm sure I could achieve everything I'm doing in mongo by some roundabout way in Postgres, but if you're doing a large amount of reading/modifying partial fields within JSON structure, it's the exact use case for mongo.
- jerrysievert 9y ago
  https://www.github.com/JerrySievert/MongoLike https://www.github.com/JerrySievert/MongoLike that said, I actually use partial JSONB updates on a regular basis, but I tend to use PLV8 to do the heavy lifting.
  - threeseed 9y ago
    What is the point of posting that ? (1) It's a proof of concept, (2) it hasn't been updated in 3 years and (3) it still isn't the same syntax as MongoDB. The point still remains that PostgreSQL isn't just a 1-1 replacement for MongoDB which is pretty common sense to me anyway.
    - jerrysievert 9y ago
      Wow, that's a pretty hostile response. 1) it's a proof of concept that others have improved upon to show that you can indeed replace the functionality of mongo that most developers tend to rely on. 2) neither has mongodb at that level 3) that's correct, you need to actually use the term SELECT when you use the functions and you are correct, pg is missing the random data loss that comes with mongo. it will never be 1-1 in regards to that. EDITING TO ADD: the important part is the note (the bulk of the comment) that I'm updating partial JSONB data on a very regular basis, and do it using PLV8, getting rid of the need for an unreliable database and instead using exactly what this news story is about.
philliphaydon 9y ago
Marten for .net
manigandham 9y ago
.NET has great support with Marten: http://jasperfx.github.io/marten/ http://jasperfx.github.io/marten/

htsh 9y ago

A small independent game is where I've used it before as well. And currently I'm working on an app/game sort of thing where it makes a lot of sense because we're iterating often and fast. I like that it kinda gets out of my way and just works, though perhaps I would not so much had I experienced the data loss others speak of.

fnayr 9y ago
Yeah I've read some horror stories about that too. I think that the improvements to concurrency (ala WiredTiger), will help wth that, as well as making sure to think about possible concurrency issues from the outset, as I've tried to do.

the_why_of_y 9y ago

Have you heard of ToroDB? FWIW they have benchmarks that claim it's running faster on top of Postgres than MongoDB does natively. "ToroDB Server It is a MongoDB-compatible server that supports speaks the MongoDB Wire Protocol (and therefore can be used with the same drivers used to connect to any standard MongoDB server) but stores your data into a reliable and trusted ACID database." https://github.com/torodb/server https://github.com/torodb/server