6 ms·

> Work somewhere where software is the main product and not just a cost center. This is THE big difference between S/W dev and IT. For 20 years I worked in th

> Work somewhere where software is the main product and not just a cost center. This is THE big difference between S/W dev and IT. For 20 years I worked in the former, and for the past 10 in the latter. No question about it: IT is hell. Theirs is a never-ending mission to reduce the cost of moving data and being "compliant" with often-meaningless ever-excessive corporate standards (and forever meaningless MBA/CIO fads and groupthink). Worst, in most businesses, IT doesn't have a respected mission. Ii provides an infrastructural service (a cost center) that other C-suiters dis as no more important than HVAC and sewer. IT appears on their radar in only two ways: 1) when something breaks and info clogs up or stops moving, and 2) when the budget is revisited and interest in IT cuts are reinvigorated. Since nobody else in the corp. respects IT's mission, senior mgt. compels the CIO to adopt meaningless surrogate goals because IT's actual mission isn't sexy enough. So for the next six months IT adopts "Platforms" or trains half the staff in Six Sigma, or outsources, or insources, or promotes of whatever other CIO groupthink initiative is in vogue at the moment. So yes, work somewhere software is valued, unlike IT.

kzisme 9y ago
I've noticed this even walking around at work in different areas other than where I sit. "Hey aren't you in IT can you help me with my computer issue" One of the things I dislike the most is being referred to as "The IT Department".
- unixhero 9y ago
  I am now in Telco The only place where I've seen IT being highly respected.
maxxxxx 9y ago
"senior mgt. compels the CIO to adopt meaningless surrogate goals because IT's actual mission isn't sexy enough. So for the next six months IT adopts "Platforms" or trains half the staff in Six Sigma, or outsources, or insources, or promotes of whatever other CIO groupthink initiative is in vogue at the moment." That describes exactly the IT department in my company.
QuantumGravy 9y ago
Having regrettably started from the IT side, it's seemingly impossible to make the jump to a software company proper. Nothing I do day-to-day is flexing any mental muscles an interviewer would find sexy. We're like a permanent underclass of undesirables. Without spending time outside work to focus on sharpening basic undergraduate CS knowledge, I know I'm getting objectively rusty at the types of problems I actually do have some remaining passion for. I fear I'll be hammering out poorly-spec'd features to the beat of another department's Gantt-chart for the rest of my life.
- Cerium 9y ago
  I have a background in Electrical Engineering, and six months ago I made the jump into my first pure software role. I worked up to it, doing lots of projects on my own time. Just a data point, that if you want to get somewhere you have to start wherever you are.
- codemac 9y ago
  Would you think that it's not sexyness, but applicability? What values do you bring to the table that a SW company would need? Because I bet you that you could find some if you switched from targeting straight dev roles to something else that is part of a SW org.
  - QuantumGravy 9y ago
    Other than time spent programming on platform X, I'm at a loss as to what values I'd bring. Would I hire myself, based on my job history? Probably not. I'm hardly going to impress anyone with such an attitude! Any suggestions on alternate roles to look for? I'd worry that just because it's a software organization, it doesn't mean I wouldn't be filling their own version of cog in a cost-center.
    - jrumbut 9y ago
      I guess this varies by location, but on average there are so many more openings than there are developers that it shouldn't be at all impossible to find a company willing to take a chance on you, especially if you are willing to either work very hard or take a slightly under market value paycheck (for the very first job). So time spent using X is great, but just saying "I can learn" and giving an example of how you're able to learn is often enough. Then just look at X enough that you know the gist of it, have a small little sample project in your github account, and you'll be good enough that someone will hire you.
mavelikara 9y ago
Marc Andreessen argues [1] that this will soon have to change. I work at an SV software vendor which sells to big enterprise IT groups. From what I have seen, firms are starting to take their IT groups more seriously. [1] http://a16z.com/2016/08/20/why-software-is-eating-the-world/ http://a16z.com/2016/08/20/why-software-is-eating-the-world/
- ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
  Right, so many companies, such as in finance/banks are really going to have to get on with changing that mentality to compete with new or existing competitors who are more tech savy.

kzisme 9y ago

I've noticed this even walking around at work in different areas other than where I sit. "Hey aren't you in IT can you help me with my computer issue" One of the things I dislike the most is being referred to as "The IT Department".

unixhero 9y ago
I am now in Telco The only place where I've seen IT being highly respected.

maxxxxx 9y ago

"senior mgt. compels the CIO to adopt meaningless surrogate goals because IT's actual mission isn't sexy enough. So for the next six months IT adopts "Platforms" or trains half the staff in Six Sigma, or outsources, or insources, or promotes of whatever other CIO groupthink initiative is in vogue at the moment." That describes exactly the IT department in my company.

QuantumGravy 9y ago

Having regrettably started from the IT side, it's seemingly impossible to make the jump to a software company proper. Nothing I do day-to-day is flexing any mental muscles an interviewer would find sexy. We're like a permanent underclass of undesirables. Without spending time outside work to focus on sharpening basic undergraduate CS knowledge, I know I'm getting objectively rusty at the types of problems I actually do have some remaining passion for. I fear I'll be hammering out poorly-spec'd features to the beat of another department's Gantt-chart for the rest of my life.

Cerium 9y ago
I have a background in Electrical Engineering, and six months ago I made the jump into my first pure software role. I worked up to it, doing lots of projects on my own time. Just a data point, that if you want to get somewhere you have to start wherever you are.
codemac 9y ago
Would you think that it's not sexyness, but applicability? What values do you bring to the table that a SW company would need? Because I bet you that you could find some if you switched from targeting straight dev roles to something else that is part of a SW org.
- QuantumGravy 9y ago
  Other than time spent programming on platform X, I'm at a loss as to what values I'd bring. Would I hire myself, based on my job history? Probably not. I'm hardly going to impress anyone with such an attitude! Any suggestions on alternate roles to look for? I'd worry that just because it's a software organization, it doesn't mean I wouldn't be filling their own version of cog in a cost-center.
  - jrumbut 9y ago
    I guess this varies by location, but on average there are so many more openings than there are developers that it shouldn't be at all impossible to find a company willing to take a chance on you, especially if you are willing to either work very hard or take a slightly under market value paycheck (for the very first job). So time spent using X is great, but just saying "I can learn" and giving an example of how you're able to learn is often enough. Then just look at X enough that you know the gist of it, have a small little sample project in your github account, and you'll be good enough that someone will hire you.

mavelikara 9y ago

Marc Andreessen argues [1] that this will soon have to change. I work at an SV software vendor which sells to big enterprise IT groups. From what I have seen, firms are starting to take their IT groups more seriously. [1] http://a16z.com/2016/08/20/why-software-is-eating-the-world/ http://a16z.com/2016/08/20/why-software-is-eating-the-world/

ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
Right, so many companies, such as in finance/banks are really going to have to get on with changing that mentality to compete with new or existing competitors who are more tech savy.