7 ms·

Sure thing... When will Jetbrain have a decent interface builder? Decent instrumentation? Decent documentation viewer? Can you get an object graph with JetB

Sure thing... When will Jetbrain have a decent interface builder? Decent instrumentation? Decent documentation viewer? Can you get an object graph with JetBrains? Xcode isn't perfect, but it's way better than JetBrains. Just because one has one feature that one doesn't have, doesn't mean that Xcode beats JetBrain's IDE all day.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
cromwellian 9y ago
Yes, yes, and yes, plus Jetbrain IDEs have much superior code assistance and navigation compared to Xcode. Xcode is clearly worse than Visual Studio, JetBrains, Eclipse, and many other IDEs I've used over the past 20 years in the industry when it comes to code navigation, refactoring, and basic editing. Xcode does only one thing well and that's interface builder, but if you were writing a backend application with no UI would you choose Xcode? I'd rank it lower than emacs and vim for editing tasks.
- Tanegashima 9y ago
  No, it doesn't. Everything that Jebrains has, Xcode also has, and most of times, better implemented.
- wruza 9y ago
  Otoh, my colleagues were surprised seeing easy and good-looking two-panel diff and blame right in Xcode. Analyzis build (one that shows blue arrows for how we can get into trouble) was surprise too. It seems that preference depends on use cases and two products can differ in different ways, not only as superior vs. regular. I never did anything in VS though, cause its interface always turned me 180 after first run. And I can write Makefile and .gvimrc from scratch much faster than it installs itself.
shadowmint 9y ago
> Xcode isn't perfect, but it's way better than JetBrains. O_o Are you kidding me? People whinge all the time about jetbrains subscriptions, but I've literally never spoken to someone who's actually used their products and think that the alternative editors available (visual studio, xcode, etc) are actually better. There are some features like UI designers that you can't do without, but it's been a long time since I met anyone who actually liked xcode.
- melling 9y ago
  Swift has Xcode and Jetbrains. There's no need to have an editor war. https://www.jetbrains.com/objc/ https://www.jetbrains.com/objc/
- wruza 9y ago
  I tried AppCode to write in objc on mac and it felt way less transparent and smooth than Xcode. Idk if Xcode is missing some features, but all my real issues probably exist in different planes. My Xcode inconvenience points are: case-insensitive completion sometimes gets in my way, as it is with single lettered variables; it is easy to break constraints for non-trivial xib. I can live with both. What is it for you, in short?
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Unless very recently XCode also crashed like crazy. So there's that.
- Tanegashima 9y ago
  > People whinge all the time about jetbrains subscriptions, but I've literally never spoken to someone who's actually used their products and think that the alternative editors available (visual studio, xcode, etc) are actually better. Of course not, considering Xcode doesn't do Java. > There are some features like UI designers that you can't do without, but it's been a long time since I met anyone who actually liked xcode. You are now. Anecdotal evidence.
- lilactown 9y ago
  I've attempted to use IntelliJ for javascript/typescript (React, Node.js) and Elixir. I've found myself continually going back to VSCode or other editors. Especially for the front-end ecosystem, VSCode's intellisense, syntax highlighting and plugin support blows everyone else out of water IMO. I use IntelliJ/Android Studio for Java, and that's about it.
codecamper 9y ago
Refactoring is a dream with JetBrains. But it is very language dependent, with Java having most support. Haven't used Kotlin in Intellij so I don't know how well Kotlin is supported, though I imagine rather well given that it their own language.
- fb03 9y ago
  I use PyCharm and refactoring works pretty well there too. Also I really like having an IDE that runs and presents itself just the same on all big three platforms, since I'm always hopping between computers.
- Tanegashima 9y ago
  There's also refactoring for Xcode, but not for Swift, which is too young to invest in that.
matchbok 9y ago
Nobody should be using IB at all for iOS development. Ever.
- Tanegashima 9y ago
  I'm an indie iOS developer, I do what I want, I use IB, it's excellent!
- s73ver 9y ago
  Except for people laying out the views. Visual things deserve a visual editor. Writing code to lay out views is the absolute worst.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

cromwellian 9y ago

Yes, yes, and yes, plus Jetbrain IDEs have much superior code assistance and navigation compared to Xcode. Xcode is clearly worse than Visual Studio, JetBrains, Eclipse, and many other IDEs I've used over the past 20 years in the industry when it comes to code navigation, refactoring, and basic editing. Xcode does only one thing well and that's interface builder, but if you were writing a backend application with no UI would you choose Xcode? I'd rank it lower than emacs and vim for editing tasks.

Tanegashima 9y ago
No, it doesn't. Everything that Jebrains has, Xcode also has, and most of times, better implemented.
wruza 9y ago
Otoh, my colleagues were surprised seeing easy and good-looking two-panel diff and blame right in Xcode. Analyzis build (one that shows blue arrows for how we can get into trouble) was surprise too. It seems that preference depends on use cases and two products can differ in different ways, not only as superior vs. regular. I never did anything in VS though, cause its interface always turned me 180 after first run. And I can write Makefile and .gvimrc from scratch much faster than it installs itself.

shadowmint 9y ago

> Xcode isn't perfect, but it's way better than JetBrains. O_o Are you kidding me? People whinge all the time about jetbrains subscriptions, but I've literally never spoken to someone who's actually used their products and think that the alternative editors available (visual studio, xcode, etc) are actually better. There are some features like UI designers that you can't do without, but it's been a long time since I met anyone who actually liked xcode.

melling 9y ago
Swift has Xcode and Jetbrains. There's no need to have an editor war. https://www.jetbrains.com/objc/ https://www.jetbrains.com/objc/
wruza 9y ago
I tried AppCode to write in objc on mac and it felt way less transparent and smooth than Xcode. Idk if Xcode is missing some features, but all my real issues probably exist in different planes. My Xcode inconvenience points are: case-insensitive completion sometimes gets in my way, as it is with single lettered variables; it is easy to break constraints for non-trivial xib. I can live with both. What is it for you, in short?
- coldtea 9y ago
  Unless very recently XCode also crashed like crazy. So there's that.
Tanegashima 9y ago
> People whinge all the time about jetbrains subscriptions, but I've literally never spoken to someone who's actually used their products and think that the alternative editors available (visual studio, xcode, etc) are actually better. Of course not, considering Xcode doesn't do Java. > There are some features like UI designers that you can't do without, but it's been a long time since I met anyone who actually liked xcode. You are now. Anecdotal evidence.
lilactown 9y ago
I've attempted to use IntelliJ for javascript/typescript (React, Node.js) and Elixir. I've found myself continually going back to VSCode or other editors. Especially for the front-end ecosystem, VSCode's intellisense, syntax highlighting and plugin support blows everyone else out of water IMO. I use IntelliJ/Android Studio for Java, and that's about it.

codecamper 9y ago

Refactoring is a dream with JetBrains. But it is very language dependent, with Java having most support. Haven't used Kotlin in Intellij so I don't know how well Kotlin is supported, though I imagine rather well given that it their own language.

fb03 9y ago
I use PyCharm and refactoring works pretty well there too. Also I really like having an IDE that runs and presents itself just the same on all big three platforms, since I'm always hopping between computers.
Tanegashima 9y ago
There's also refactoring for Xcode, but not for Swift, which is too young to invest in that.

matchbok 9y ago

Nobody should be using IB at all for iOS development. Ever.

Tanegashima 9y ago
I'm an indie iOS developer, I do what I want, I use IB, it's excellent!
s73ver 9y ago
Except for people laying out the views. Visual things deserve a visual editor. Writing code to lay out views is the absolute worst.