5 ms·

Your last paragraph describes the Australian university system. Government foots the bill to invest in your education, you pay it back gradually (and not until

Your last paragraph describes the Australian university system. Government foots the bill to invest in your education, you pay it back gradually (and not until you're earning enough for it not to hurt).

austenallred 9y ago
Makes a hell of a lot of sense, to be honest. The problem in the US system is the government feels everyone has a "right" to an education, so it will underwrite an unlimited amount of loans regardless of what you do with them. That pumps the system so full of cash no one is quite sure what to do. They just keep raising prices and people keep coming, because what are you going to do, not go to college? Even after funding slows, the prices are still sky high, and people keep paying.
- muninn_ 9y ago
  Why would this be any different than a right to, say, health care? Why even pay for k-12?
  - austenallred 9y ago
    The government isn't running the schools (most of the time), it's just underwriting an infinite amount of loans for students to take and go to private companies with. So if you're a University you know a) students think they should pay however much it costs to attend and b) they have an unlimited amount of funding to do so with. Thus ITT Tech.
    - muninn_ 9y ago
      Sure but we're talking about rights, not operations.
      - austenallred 9y ago
        I'm not trying to comment on whether or not education should be a right, I'm just saying that believing it should be given our current system has had some negative repercussions.
        muninn_ 9y ago
        Which is fine, but my comment was addressing the right to education.
      - salesguy222 9y ago
        I would say there is a major difference between local property owners paying reasonable sums for children to become literate (k-12)... and a nation paying highly unreasonable and ballooning sums of money so that a functional literate adult can obtain an education that rarely leads to 10x better outcomes
  - programmarchy 9y ago
    No such thing as a right to either because neither health providers nor educators are slaves.
  - thatwebdude 9y ago
    You do have a right to public K-12, and it's free (your taxes pay for it). You can pay for private K-12, or "pay up" and move to a more expensive school district (read: taxes) which would theoretically give you a better education. School districts have problems with people claiming grandparent's home addresses to attend a better school, and it happens across the country.
    - muninn_ 9y ago
      Sure, but if the k-12 is necessary for employment, it follows that 12+ should be "free" as well. It seems like a college education these days is a basic education similar to 9th-12th grade.
maccard 9y ago
And the UK (in principle). Although it's quite savage, as the repayments are tied to RPI if you took out your loan post 2012. You pay 9% of your income over 21k-ish until the debt is paid off. Calculator here to show just how grossly unfair this system is in practice [0]. [0] http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-finance-calculator http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-finance-ca...
- simonbarker87 9y ago
  Out of interest, what makes this system unfair? Or are you just talking about the year demarcations? I've always quite liked that my student loan repayment is tied to my salary as it's one less bill to worry about if/when things go badly. It means that when we were getting our business off the ground and didn't take salary out, I at least didn't have to worry about the student loan. Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to the day I'm not having to pay it but at the same time, I think the changes in university fees would be better received if they simply called it a graduate tax that expires after 20 years.

austenallred 9y ago

Makes a hell of a lot of sense, to be honest. The problem in the US system is the government feels everyone has a "right" to an education, so it will underwrite an unlimited amount of loans regardless of what you do with them. That pumps the system so full of cash no one is quite sure what to do. They just keep raising prices and people keep coming, because what are you going to do, not go to college? Even after funding slows, the prices are still sky high, and people keep paying.

muninn_ 9y ago
Why would this be any different than a right to, say, health care? Why even pay for k-12?
- austenallred 9y ago
  The government isn't running the schools (most of the time), it's just underwriting an infinite amount of loans for students to take and go to private companies with. So if you're a University you know a) students think they should pay however much it costs to attend and b) they have an unlimited amount of funding to do so with. Thus ITT Tech.
  - muninn_ 9y ago
    Sure but we're talking about rights, not operations.
    - austenallred 9y ago
      I'm not trying to comment on whether or not education should be a right, I'm just saying that believing it should be given our current system has had some negative repercussions.
      - muninn_ 9y ago
        Which is fine, but my comment was addressing the right to education.
    - salesguy222 9y ago
      I would say there is a major difference between local property owners paying reasonable sums for children to become literate (k-12)... and a nation paying highly unreasonable and ballooning sums of money so that a functional literate adult can obtain an education that rarely leads to 10x better outcomes
- programmarchy 9y ago
  No such thing as a right to either because neither health providers nor educators are slaves.
- thatwebdude 9y ago
  You do have a right to public K-12, and it's free (your taxes pay for it). You can pay for private K-12, or "pay up" and move to a more expensive school district (read: taxes) which would theoretically give you a better education. School districts have problems with people claiming grandparent's home addresses to attend a better school, and it happens across the country.
  - muninn_ 9y ago
    Sure, but if the k-12 is necessary for employment, it follows that 12+ should be "free" as well. It seems like a college education these days is a basic education similar to 9th-12th grade.

maccard 9y ago

And the UK (in principle). Although it's quite savage, as the repayments are tied to RPI if you took out your loan post 2012. You pay 9% of your income over 21k-ish until the debt is paid off. Calculator here to show just how grossly unfair this system is in practice [0]. [0] http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-finance-calculator http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-finance-ca...

simonbarker87 9y ago
Out of interest, what makes this system unfair? Or are you just talking about the year demarcations? I've always quite liked that my student loan repayment is tied to my salary as it's one less bill to worry about if/when things go badly. It means that when we were getting our business off the ground and didn't take salary out, I at least didn't have to worry about the student loan. Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to the day I'm not having to pay it but at the same time, I think the changes in university fees would be better received if they simply called it a graduate tax that expires after 20 years.