6 ms·

To my discredit I enjoyed dumping on Google earlier today with the Firebase support issue article. That being said this was a great response and I appreciate i

by Top19 9y ago

To my discredit I enjoyed dumping on Google earlier today with the Firebase support issue article. That being said this was a great response and I appreciate it. Also my first React Native app used Firebase and I have fond memories of setting that up :) I like that item #1 was very direct...essentially: "look the support got worse and it's not good but we're working on it". SIDE NOTE: I don't get how a lot of people today don't understand that using vague language in apologies doesn't help with apologies. It definitely used to, but then everyone started doing it, and now the cool / rare thing to do is to be direct. Maybe the pendulum will swing back someday. Until then thank you Mr.Google/Firebase/James person.

josephg 9y ago
I enjoyed dumping on Google earlier too. I love firebase, but I've talked two companies I've worked with out of using it for new, mission critical projects. The earlier article made me feel completely vindicated in my recommendations. I simply have no trust that: - Google won't randomly cancel firebase (wave, reader, etc) - Google won't randomly, suddenly jack up the prices for firebase, leaving users in the lurch (appengine) - When something mission critical breaks or changes, I'll have any way of contacting someone who cares, no matter how much my company is paying for the service. (Google's support forums are a pit of sorrow) I was reading an article the other day talking about personhood[1]. It makes the point that part of being a member of society is the idea of standing. That is, if you break your word there has to be a way for you to lose out as a result. If there isn't, its impossible for anyone to enter into an agreement with you because you can't be trusted. Forming an agreement requires both sides to have skin in the game. I don't genuinely believe that google has skin in the game when it comes to cloud services for small-to-medium customers. Its just too easy for them to drop the ball, stop answering emails and leave customers in the lurch. They've done it again and again. I'd say its the default way Google operates. Thomas Schelling from The Strategy of Conflict: > Among the legal privileges of corporations, two that are mentioned in textbooks are the right to sue and the "right" to be sued. Who wants to be sued! But the right to be sued is the power to make a promise: to borrow money, to enter a contract, to do business with someone who might be damaged. If suit does arise, the "right" seems a liability in retrospect; beforehand it was a prerequisite to doing business. Please, firebase. Please be different. But know that thats the reputation you're fighting against. Thats the reputation you've inherited by joining Google. But for now I'm standing by my earlier recommendations. [1] http://www.meltingasphalt.com/personhood-a-game-for-two-or-more-players/ http://www.meltingasphalt.com/personhood-a-game-for-two-or-m...
- teddyh 9y ago
  As I said two years ago¹, Google is too large to have actual customers, per se, since any group of paying users is still too small for Google to need to pay attention to. ① https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9912754 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9912754
  - paulddraper 9y ago
    These are all little hobby projects for the advertising company.
    - crypto5 9y ago
      Part of ecosystem. See how firebase today is integrated with analytics/ads.
  - user5994461 9y ago
    Bullshit. Any telco operator has millions of customers and it handles support just fine. Any bank has millions of customers and it does support just fine. Google enterprise products (Cloud, app engine, apps) are nowhere near that number. They have no excuse for not having support.
    - nikanj 9y ago
      You must be living with different telcos and banks than the rest of us. They often frequent the lists of most hated companies, for example [1] has good representation from both industries. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/america-most-hated-companies-110032495.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/america-most-hated-companies-...
      - user5994461 9y ago
        I don't have much to complain about all the providers I had in my life. Sure, I had to wait 15 minutes on the phone a few times, or send letters now and then. Nothing out of the ordinary.
mdekkers 9y ago
That being said this was a great response and I appreciate it Do you really think "Our sub-par standards got outed in a forum dedicated to our core target market so we did a spot fix and made some noise about how we will improve" qualifies as a great response? A great response would be "We are aware our support is not inline with what a service like this requires. We will implement the following measures over period X" This is more like "oops, sorry we got found out" "Cloud" support in general is dreadful, especially given the extremely high premium you pay for *aaS services.
unoti 9y ago
> SIDE NOTE: I don't get how a lot of people today don't understand that using vague language in apologies doesn't help with apologies. It doesn't, you're right. But specific language in apologies doesn't help the company much during litigation, especially civil litigation when assessing damages. I realize that's not real sexy, but that might give you some perspective on your question. Imagine everything you write is being entered into a court transcript, and evaluated by a judge's clerk working on a recommendation for assigning damages. It is better to focus on delivering excellent service so things more rarely get to that point, but that's how apologies and announcements tend to get vague to the point of senselessness.
Piskvorrr 9y ago
Meh. This is just a crisis-response PR move: "look at all the flak we're getting at HN, do something NOW!!! (And then go back to the support-slumber as usual)" Do you believe anything would change if it were not for the above post making it to HN frontpage?

by Top19 9y ago

josephg 9y ago

I enjoyed dumping on Google earlier too. I love firebase, but I've talked two companies I've worked with out of using it for new, mission critical projects. The earlier article made me feel completely vindicated in my recommendations. I simply have no trust that: - Google won't randomly cancel firebase (wave, reader, etc) - Google won't randomly, suddenly jack up the prices for firebase, leaving users in the lurch (appengine) - When something mission critical breaks or changes, I'll have any way of contacting someone who cares, no matter how much my company is paying for the service. (Google's support forums are a pit of sorrow) I was reading an article the other day talking about personhood[1]. It makes the point that part of being a member of society is the idea of standing. That is, if you break your word there has to be a way for you to lose out as a result. If there isn't, its impossible for anyone to enter into an agreement with you because you can't be trusted. Forming an agreement requires both sides to have skin in the game. I don't genuinely believe that google has skin in the game when it comes to cloud services for small-to-medium customers. Its just too easy for them to drop the ball, stop answering emails and leave customers in the lurch. They've done it again and again. I'd say its the default way Google operates. Thomas Schelling from The Strategy of Conflict: > Among the legal privileges of corporations, two that are mentioned in textbooks are the right to sue and the "right" to be sued. Who wants to be sued! But the right to be sued is the power to make a promise: to borrow money, to enter a contract, to do business with someone who might be damaged. If suit does arise, the "right" seems a liability in retrospect; beforehand it was a prerequisite to doing business. Please, firebase. Please be different. But know that thats the reputation you're fighting against. Thats the reputation you've inherited by joining Google. But for now I'm standing by my earlier recommendations. [1] http://www.meltingasphalt.com/personhood-a-game-for-two-or-more-players/ http://www.meltingasphalt.com/personhood-a-game-for-two-or-m...

teddyh 9y ago
As I said two years ago¹, Google is too large to have actual customers, per se, since any group of paying users is still too small for Google to need to pay attention to. ① https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9912754 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9912754
- paulddraper 9y ago
  These are all little hobby projects for the advertising company.
  - crypto5 9y ago
    Part of ecosystem. See how firebase today is integrated with analytics/ads.
- user5994461 9y ago
  Bullshit. Any telco operator has millions of customers and it handles support just fine. Any bank has millions of customers and it does support just fine. Google enterprise products (Cloud, app engine, apps) are nowhere near that number. They have no excuse for not having support.
  - nikanj 9y ago
    You must be living with different telcos and banks than the rest of us. They often frequent the lists of most hated companies, for example [1] has good representation from both industries. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/america-most-hated-companies-110032495.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/america-most-hated-companies-...
    - user5994461 9y ago
      I don't have much to complain about all the providers I had in my life. Sure, I had to wait 15 minutes on the phone a few times, or send letters now and then. Nothing out of the ordinary.

mdekkers 9y ago

That being said this was a great response and I appreciate it Do you really think "Our sub-par standards got outed in a forum dedicated to our core target market so we did a spot fix and made some noise about how we will improve" qualifies as a great response? A great response would be "We are aware our support is not inline with what a service like this requires. We will implement the following measures over period X" This is more like "oops, sorry we got found out" "Cloud" support in general is dreadful, especially given the extremely high premium you pay for *aaS services.

unoti 9y ago

> SIDE NOTE: I don't get how a lot of people today don't understand that using vague language in apologies doesn't help with apologies. It doesn't, you're right. But specific language in apologies doesn't help the company much during litigation, especially civil litigation when assessing damages. I realize that's not real sexy, but that might give you some perspective on your question. Imagine everything you write is being entered into a court transcript, and evaluated by a judge's clerk working on a recommendation for assigning damages. It is better to focus on delivering excellent service so things more rarely get to that point, but that's how apologies and announcements tend to get vague to the point of senselessness.

Piskvorrr 9y ago

Meh. This is just a crisis-response PR move: "look at all the flak we're getting at HN, do something NOW!!! (And then go back to the support-slumber as usual)" Do you believe anything would change if it were not for the above post making it to HN frontpage?