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[citation needed], since that's an extremely serious accusation -- particularly with search -- from a regulatory and antitrust perspective. That type of accusat

[citation needed], since that's an extremely serious accusation -- particularly with search -- from a regulatory and antitrust perspective. That type of accusation should not be so carelessly thrown about, despite any opinions on Google as a whole. Search and business are almost religiously walled off from each other; apropos, they have, in the past, deindexed or penalized their own properties when they violate their own terms. This happened to the Chrome site in recent memory, and Danny Sullivan has written[0] about others. If Google sites tend to float to the top for you, you're probably an avid Google user (don't forget search results are personalized) or searching for terms in which they rank highly. Extrapolating such an experience to Google taking advantage of their position to create a non-level playing field for search results is a biiiiiiig claim, given the implications. Back it up. [0]: http://searchengineland.com/google-penalized-breaking-seo-rules-184098 http://searchengineland.com/google-penalized-breaking-seo-ru...

weirdstuff 9y ago
I'm watching the EU: https://www.ft.com/content/b2b2b246-b21b-3493-936f-4853f8fa5dad https://www.ft.com/content/b2b2b246-b21b-3493-936f-4853f8fa5...
type0 9y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/technology/google-europe-antitrust.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/technology/google-europe-... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/google-faces-3bn-fine-for-promoting-its-own-shopping-service-in-searches-a7032121.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/google-faces... http://www.computerworld.com/article/2501282/internet/critics-accuse-google-of-unfairly-promoting-google--in-search-results.html http://www.computerworld.com/article/2501282/internet/critic... http://www.npr.org/2016/04/20/475015260/eu-charges-google-for-unfairly-leveraging-android-operating-system http://www.npr.org/2016/04/20/475015260/eu-charges-google-fo... How many sources do you need?
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  None of your sources discuss PageRank results. They discuss Google+ sidebars, Google Shopping boxes, and Android integrations.
ksk 9y ago
So when are they going to stop the "Install Chrome" popups plastered all over their properties? Or Forcing manufacturers to default search to Google on Android? Google absolutely ties products together. Almost every single search query returns search results linking to content surrounded by adsense ads. I'm still waiting for them to de-prioritize those webpages, and link to results containing little to no ads. IIRC back when YT still ran exclusively on flash, they de-prioritized other websites for flash content but ignored the offensive over the top ads on YT's front page. Memories fade, but at this point I hazard a guess that even Google's own employees don't believe that their search doesn't favor them.
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  > Memories fade, but at this point I hazard a guess that even Google's own employees don't believe that their search doesn't favor them. I am a former Google employee, and your guess is wrong, in my experience. Most I've interacted with on this topic correctly perceive Google search results as important to maintain as neutral, given the consequences for not doing so. This thread started as discussing search engine ranking for .ai. A claim was then made that Google always prioritizes its own properties, and the person who made that claim discarded the context of search results. We're now talking about Google+ sidebars/shopping boxes, Android integrations, and so on -- that was not at all what I'm talking about. I'm specifically countering the notion that PageRank is manipulated to support Google properties. That's all. I'm not here to defend Google. (I am actually quite negative on Google.) I'm arresting the claim that Google manipulates search results to promote its own properties, because that's just fake news. Sorry. I am aware the EU and others considered Google+ sidebars and Google Shopping boxes as manipulating results, but they are orthogonal and only manipulate results technically. There is absolutely no code in search that adds PageRank to a property simply because it is owned by Google, and the burden is on the person making that claim to back it up.
  - type0 9y ago
    One interesting thing that happens to some of my non techy friends and relatives: when they want to search for something they know it's google that is their default search engine, so they type in google followed by the keywords into the address bar. Guess which companys services they get first in their search result?
imcoconut 9y ago
Aside from the fact that it is in their terms and doing so would violate said terms, I don't see the issue with google prioritizing their own properties over others. Search is a feee service offered by a private company. Users of search don't pay for it so I dont see how monopoly or antitrust legal issues arise. As long as they are honest about what they're doing, and don't manipate ad results (which is a service that does have paying customers) the non ad results could be generated however google sees fit. Since it's free google should be able to set whatever terms it wants - if you don't like it don't use it. No?

weirdstuff 9y ago

I'm watching the EU: https://www.ft.com/content/b2b2b246-b21b-3493-936f-4853f8fa5dad https://www.ft.com/content/b2b2b246-b21b-3493-936f-4853f8fa5...

type0 9y ago

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/technology/google-europe-antitrust.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/technology/google-europe-... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/google-faces-3bn-fine-for-promoting-its-own-shopping-service-in-searches-a7032121.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/google-faces... http://www.computerworld.com/article/2501282/internet/critics-accuse-google-of-unfairly-promoting-google--in-search-results.html http://www.computerworld.com/article/2501282/internet/critic... http://www.npr.org/2016/04/20/475015260/eu-charges-google-for-unfairly-leveraging-android-operating-system http://www.npr.org/2016/04/20/475015260/eu-charges-google-fo... How many sources do you need?

jsmthrowaway 9y ago
None of your sources discuss PageRank results. They discuss Google+ sidebars, Google Shopping boxes, and Android integrations.

ksk 9y ago

So when are they going to stop the "Install Chrome" popups plastered all over their properties? Or Forcing manufacturers to default search to Google on Android? Google absolutely ties products together. Almost every single search query returns search results linking to content surrounded by adsense ads. I'm still waiting for them to de-prioritize those webpages, and link to results containing little to no ads. IIRC back when YT still ran exclusively on flash, they de-prioritized other websites for flash content but ignored the offensive over the top ads on YT's front page. Memories fade, but at this point I hazard a guess that even Google's own employees don't believe that their search doesn't favor them.

jsmthrowaway 9y ago
> Memories fade, but at this point I hazard a guess that even Google's own employees don't believe that their search doesn't favor them. I am a former Google employee, and your guess is wrong, in my experience. Most I've interacted with on this topic correctly perceive Google search results as important to maintain as neutral, given the consequences for not doing so. This thread started as discussing search engine ranking for .ai. A claim was then made that Google always prioritizes its own properties, and the person who made that claim discarded the context of search results. We're now talking about Google+ sidebars/shopping boxes, Android integrations, and so on -- that was not at all what I'm talking about. I'm specifically countering the notion that PageRank is manipulated to support Google properties. That's all. I'm not here to defend Google. (I am actually quite negative on Google.) I'm arresting the claim that Google manipulates search results to promote its own properties, because that's just fake news. Sorry. I am aware the EU and others considered Google+ sidebars and Google Shopping boxes as manipulating results, but they are orthogonal and only manipulate results technically. There is absolutely no code in search that adds PageRank to a property simply because it is owned by Google, and the burden is on the person making that claim to back it up.
- type0 9y ago
  One interesting thing that happens to some of my non techy friends and relatives: when they want to search for something they know it's google that is their default search engine, so they type in google followed by the keywords into the address bar. Guess which companys services they get first in their search result?

imcoconut 9y ago

Aside from the fact that it is in their terms and doing so would violate said terms, I don't see the issue with google prioritizing their own properties over others. Search is a feee service offered by a private company. Users of search don't pay for it so I dont see how monopoly or antitrust legal issues arise. As long as they are honest about what they're doing, and don't manipate ad results (which is a service that does have paying customers) the non ad results could be generated however google sees fit. Since it's free google should be able to set whatever terms it wants - if you don't like it don't use it. No?