6 ms·

But he was not a whistleblower, there was nothing important to leak besides bunch of state's secrets. The leaks held no value.

badosu 9y ago
Didn't she disclose the information on the video 'Collateral Murder' that was subsequently subject to a FOIA request?
beaconstudios 9y ago
I'd argue that the Collateral Murder videos triggered considerable controversy and criticism against the US military's attitude to airstrikes. The cable leaks also caused a fair amount of political embarrassment. So it depends on what you consider to be valuable - I'd say direct evidence of airstrikes being triggered against civilians with minimal oversight alone is valuable to a citizenry that wants to keep tabs on military accountability and push for change.
- GVIrish 9y ago
  If Manning had only leaked the video in an attempt to bring light on what she perceived as a war crime, she would've had a case as a whistleblower. Indiscriminately leaking thousands of documents where she had no idea of the contents, is not whistleblowing. That's why she ended up with the sentence that she did.
  - beaconstudios 9y ago
    and yet her sentence was commuted where Snowden remains a fugitive.
- Pica_soO 9y ago
  Yeah, thats quite the wrong sort of airstrike. The good sort of airstrike is, where you sneak in the middle of the night in some village, where one bad guy sleeps - kill him, get caught - wake everyone up, and get in a chaotic shoot out with a medieval village, where raids by neighboring warlords are the norm. Then when you get wounded you call a airstrike and eliminate the village. One has to give it to the drone warriors- at least they send the commando duke of hazards to the unemployment office.
ntlk 9y ago
I think you mean _she_.
- fizgig 9y ago
  I think he meant exactly what he meant. Wasn't Manning still identifying as "he" when the leaks were done? Or was she already transitioned at that point? I hate this whole walking on eggshells around gender/identity politics. It detracts from the discussion for no valid reason.
  - eropple 9y ago
    There aren't really any eggshells to walk on unless you're inventing them (and the person you replied to was not impolite about the correction). Chelsea Manning identifies as a woman. This isn't something that happens overnight; it's impossible for you or I or the great-grandparent to know when Manning decided to come out to family, friends, that sort of thing. As such, it's incumbent upon us to use the most currently, and thus least likely to inadvertently offend, pronoun and referents. (This is also why it is poor form to use a trans person's pre-transition name when referring to them in the past tense. In my experience, if a trans person would rather be described using that prior name or prior pronouns for his or her prior self, he or she will let you know.)
    - fizgig 9y ago
      We're just gonna have to respectfully agree to disagree on some of this. I don't go out of my way to be insensitive, but I'm not going to flush my DVD of The Matrix down the Memory Hole because it has "Wachowski Brothers" stamped on it. If the Wachowskis put out a new movie today, I'll reference them appropriately as the Wachowski sisters who produced it, but they simply weren't sisters when they created The Matrix, and I'll continue to reference the creators of that movie as brothers. I saw a similar rewriting of history upstream in this thread, and I just can't let that slide. In fact, this is an edge case where nobody is right or wrong, so there can really be no "correction" to call out. Someone (Manning) changed the rules mid-game, so it must be expected and tolerated that not everyone will parse the output of the remainder of the game to their liking.
adrienne 9y ago
Chelsea Manning is a she. Please do not misgender people.

badosu 9y ago

Didn't she disclose the information on the video 'Collateral Murder' that was subsequently subject to a FOIA request?

beaconstudios 9y ago

I'd argue that the Collateral Murder videos triggered considerable controversy and criticism against the US military's attitude to airstrikes. The cable leaks also caused a fair amount of political embarrassment. So it depends on what you consider to be valuable - I'd say direct evidence of airstrikes being triggered against civilians with minimal oversight alone is valuable to a citizenry that wants to keep tabs on military accountability and push for change.

GVIrish 9y ago
If Manning had only leaked the video in an attempt to bring light on what she perceived as a war crime, she would've had a case as a whistleblower. Indiscriminately leaking thousands of documents where she had no idea of the contents, is not whistleblowing. That's why she ended up with the sentence that she did.
- beaconstudios 9y ago
  and yet her sentence was commuted where Snowden remains a fugitive.
Pica_soO 9y ago
Yeah, thats quite the wrong sort of airstrike. The good sort of airstrike is, where you sneak in the middle of the night in some village, where one bad guy sleeps - kill him, get caught - wake everyone up, and get in a chaotic shoot out with a medieval village, where raids by neighboring warlords are the norm. Then when you get wounded you call a airstrike and eliminate the village. One has to give it to the drone warriors- at least they send the commando duke of hazards to the unemployment office.

ntlk 9y ago

I think you mean _she_.

fizgig 9y ago
I think he meant exactly what he meant. Wasn't Manning still identifying as "he" when the leaks were done? Or was she already transitioned at that point? I hate this whole walking on eggshells around gender/identity politics. It detracts from the discussion for no valid reason.
- eropple 9y ago
  There aren't really any eggshells to walk on unless you're inventing them (and the person you replied to was not impolite about the correction). Chelsea Manning identifies as a woman. This isn't something that happens overnight; it's impossible for you or I or the great-grandparent to know when Manning decided to come out to family, friends, that sort of thing. As such, it's incumbent upon us to use the most currently, and thus least likely to inadvertently offend, pronoun and referents. (This is also why it is poor form to use a trans person's pre-transition name when referring to them in the past tense. In my experience, if a trans person would rather be described using that prior name or prior pronouns for his or her prior self, he or she will let you know.)
  - fizgig 9y ago
    We're just gonna have to respectfully agree to disagree on some of this. I don't go out of my way to be insensitive, but I'm not going to flush my DVD of The Matrix down the Memory Hole because it has "Wachowski Brothers" stamped on it. If the Wachowskis put out a new movie today, I'll reference them appropriately as the Wachowski sisters who produced it, but they simply weren't sisters when they created The Matrix, and I'll continue to reference the creators of that movie as brothers. I saw a similar rewriting of history upstream in this thread, and I just can't let that slide. In fact, this is an edge case where nobody is right or wrong, so there can really be no "correction" to call out. Someone (Manning) changed the rules mid-game, so it must be expected and tolerated that not everyone will parse the output of the remainder of the game to their liking.

adrienne 9y ago

Chelsea Manning is a she. Please do not misgender people.