6 ms·

> Simple: A person's gender is a part of their personal identity. That's an opinion.

CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
That's actually a fact. Gender is defined as: the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones). For most people, your gender and your sex are congruent. For others, it isn't. Even if you don't agree: Why do you care?
- tree_of_item 9y ago
  Some people care because gender identity is eroding sex based protections. I should think women care a lot that men are now allowed in their spaces based on an internal sense of "gender".
  - CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
    > Some people care because gender identity is eroding sex based protections. What do your greater political fears have to do with treating others with respect? > I should think women care a lot that men are now allowed in their spaces based on an internal sense of "gender". Are you talking about that bathroom debacle? I've got a simple solution: http://scott.arciszewski.me/blog/2017/03/trans-bathroom-rights http://scott.arciszewski.me/blog/2017/03/trans-bathroom-righ...
  - novia 9y ago
    I should think women care a lot that men are now allowed in their spaces based on an internal sense of "gender". No. We don't. Transwomen are welcome in our bathrooms, locker rooms, and spas.
    - tree_of_item 9y ago
      Here are a few women who disagree with you: https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/5dwaqy/peak_trans_iv_tell_your_story_here https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/5dwaqy/peak...
      - novia 9y ago
        There are 7126 subscribers to the subreddit you linked. A notable feminist subreddit that is actively not transphobic (that I am not going to link to because I love it and I do not want it to be brigaded) has 214400 subscribers. So your sample is about 3% of the internet population if we believe that reddit is a representative sample. I sincerely believe that the vast majority of women are tired of being used as an excuse for bigotry.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        tree_of_item 9y ago
        And I believe there is absolutely nothing bigoted about understanding that biological sex is real and immutable. Did you see some bigotry in the thread I linked?
        CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
        Nobody here has argued anything about biological sex. We're talking about personal identity, which is psychological and cultural instead of microbiological.
        singlow 9y ago
        Reddit is considered representative? It certainly has a wide range of views but it is heavily weighted to youths and young adults.
        novia 9y ago
        Absolutely not. The OP linked to reddit to demonstrate their viewpoint was shared by women, and I was countering their argument by demonstrating that it is relatively unpopular among women on the site that they linked. I definitely understand the downvotes now that the comment has been flagged and is not able to be seen.
    - ManlyBread 9y ago
      Says you.
    - creepydata 9y ago
      As another women, I agree.
- gpm 9y ago
  The definition of gender is not universally agreed upon. And it's pretty obvious that that definition is not the one the person you are replying to uses. Definitions are also not fact, by definition. There are plenty of valid arguments for calling trans people the gender they want to be. This isn't one since it isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you. Edit: The why do you care part is a valid argument, was addressing the rest of your comment

That's actually a fact. Gender is defined as: the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones). For most people, your gender and your sex are congruent. For others, it isn't. Even if you don't agree: Why do you care?

tree_of_item 9y ago
Some people care because gender identity is eroding sex based protections. I should think women care a lot that men are now allowed in their spaces based on an internal sense of "gender".
- CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
  > Some people care because gender identity is eroding sex based protections. What do your greater political fears have to do with treating others with respect? > I should think women care a lot that men are now allowed in their spaces based on an internal sense of "gender". Are you talking about that bathroom debacle? I've got a simple solution: http://scott.arciszewski.me/blog/2017/03/trans-bathroom-rights http://scott.arciszewski.me/blog/2017/03/trans-bathroom-righ...
- novia 9y ago
  I should think women care a lot that men are now allowed in their spaces based on an internal sense of "gender". No. We don't. Transwomen are welcome in our bathrooms, locker rooms, and spas.
  - tree_of_item 9y ago
    Here are a few women who disagree with you: https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/5dwaqy/peak_trans_iv_tell_your_story_here https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/5dwaqy/peak...
    - novia 9y ago
      There are 7126 subscribers to the subreddit you linked. A notable feminist subreddit that is actively not transphobic (that I am not going to link to because I love it and I do not want it to be brigaded) has 214400 subscribers. So your sample is about 3% of the internet population if we believe that reddit is a representative sample. I sincerely believe that the vast majority of women are tired of being used as an excuse for bigotry.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - tree_of_item 9y ago
        And I believe there is absolutely nothing bigoted about understanding that biological sex is real and immutable. Did you see some bigotry in the thread I linked?
        CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
        Nobody here has argued anything about biological sex. We're talking about personal identity, which is psychological and cultural instead of microbiological.
      - singlow 9y ago
        Reddit is considered representative? It certainly has a wide range of views but it is heavily weighted to youths and young adults.
        novia 9y ago
        Absolutely not. The OP linked to reddit to demonstrate their viewpoint was shared by women, and I was countering their argument by demonstrating that it is relatively unpopular among women on the site that they linked. I definitely understand the downvotes now that the comment has been flagged and is not able to be seen.
  - ManlyBread 9y ago
    Says you.
  - creepydata 9y ago
    As another women, I agree.
gpm 9y ago
The definition of gender is not universally agreed upon. And it's pretty obvious that that definition is not the one the person you are replying to uses. Definitions are also not fact, by definition. There are plenty of valid arguments for calling trans people the gender they want to be. This isn't one since it isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you. Edit: The why do you care part is a valid argument, was addressing the rest of your comment