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While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned, while there are a lot more pardon deserving persons among the other whistleb

While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned, while there are a lot more pardon deserving persons among the other whistleblowers of the era. Nothing good or interesting came from those leaks. And they were legitimate threat to US security. And Snowden ones were responsible, curated and only in the areas where rights of US citizens were infringed. And yet he is stranded in Russia (1/6 of the world, so not bad). What is the lesson - if you leak, leak more severe?

masklinn 9y ago
> While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned Manning was not pardoned, her sentence was commuted. She is still considered guilty on all grounds on which she was convicted. > And Snowden ones were responsible, curated and only in the areas where rights of US citizens were infringed. > And yet he is stranded in Russia (1/6 of the world, so not bad). > What is the lesson - if you leak, leak more severe? Snowden has not been sitting a in a US prison for years (in pretty difficult conditions) after a sentencing which many found excessive and unfair. So the lesson is rather more "get sentenced to rank reduction to E-1, forfeiting of pay and allowances, dishonorably discharged and 35 years in prison and you may see the last part reduced to only ~6 years afterwards". Oh don't forget the 6 years include a significant duration as POI at Quantico: * checks by guards every five minutes * not allowed to sleep between 5 am (7 am on weekends) and 8 pm * required to remain visible at all times, no sheets, pillow built into mattress, and blanket designed for unshreddability * sleeping attire limited to boxer shorts * 6 × 12 ft (1.8 x 3.6 m) with no window, containing a bed, toilet and sink * allowed to walk for up to one hour a day, meals in the cell, shackled during lawyer visits Not to disparage Snowden, and his reasons for not coming back seem sound, but political asylum in Russia isn't exactly Manning's last 6 years.
- asdfGUYasdfn 9y ago
  You know, the conditions of these two should have been an environments similar to those in GITMO. I have no sympathy for these people.
- VLM 9y ago
  There's a lot of people working hard to bring those conditions back to the workplace.
lojack 9y ago
I responded to a different thread with this, but she wasn't actually pardoned. Her sentence was commuted, or shortened. Formally this means she hasn't been forgiven for the crimes.
r3bl 9y ago
To be able to get the same treatment as Manning, Snowden would first have to get to the US, go through a trial, get convicted, serve a couple of years in prison, and then get his sentence commuted. Snowden thinks (and I personally agree) that the second step (of him going through a trial) would not work, because he wouldn't get a fair trial, and I agree with him. And, as was pointed out to you, Manning hasn't been cleared of claims that she made. She still made a crime according the court and was still convicted of that crime. It's just that her punishment got reduced and she is now free. It's nowhere even near the similar situation. Snowden's case is basically in the same stage where Manning's case was when she leaked the documents, so somewhere around 2011. Manning pleaded guilty to the charges in court in early 2013. Snowden still didn't go through that process.
vivekd 9y ago
They were very different cases: 1. Manning thought she was doing the right thing and didn't realize what she would cause. Snowden knew exactly what he was doing. 2. Manning leaked the docs to something that is probably a Russian front but something she didn't realize was a Russian front. Snowden, if he didn't turn over the leaks to the Russian and Chinese governments, certainly put them in great risk of being turned over.

masklinn 9y ago

> While not rotting in prison is great - isn't it strange that Manning was pardoned Manning was not pardoned, her sentence was commuted. She is still considered guilty on all grounds on which she was convicted. > And Snowden ones were responsible, curated and only in the areas where rights of US citizens were infringed. > And yet he is stranded in Russia (1/6 of the world, so not bad). > What is the lesson - if you leak, leak more severe? Snowden has not been sitting a in a US prison for years (in pretty difficult conditions) after a sentencing which many found excessive and unfair. So the lesson is rather more "get sentenced to rank reduction to E-1, forfeiting of pay and allowances, dishonorably discharged and 35 years in prison and you may see the last part reduced to only ~6 years afterwards". Oh don't forget the 6 years include a significant duration as POI at Quantico: * checks by guards every five minutes * not allowed to sleep between 5 am (7 am on weekends) and 8 pm * required to remain visible at all times, no sheets, pillow built into mattress, and blanket designed for unshreddability * sleeping attire limited to boxer shorts * 6 × 12 ft (1.8 x 3.6 m) with no window, containing a bed, toilet and sink * allowed to walk for up to one hour a day, meals in the cell, shackled during lawyer visits Not to disparage Snowden, and his reasons for not coming back seem sound, but political asylum in Russia isn't exactly Manning's last 6 years.

asdfGUYasdfn 9y ago
You know, the conditions of these two should have been an environments similar to those in GITMO. I have no sympathy for these people.
VLM 9y ago
There's a lot of people working hard to bring those conditions back to the workplace.

lojack 9y ago

I responded to a different thread with this, but she wasn't actually pardoned. Her sentence was commuted, or shortened. Formally this means she hasn't been forgiven for the crimes.

r3bl 9y ago

To be able to get the same treatment as Manning, Snowden would first have to get to the US, go through a trial, get convicted, serve a couple of years in prison, and then get his sentence commuted. Snowden thinks (and I personally agree) that the second step (of him going through a trial) would not work, because he wouldn't get a fair trial, and I agree with him. And, as was pointed out to you, Manning hasn't been cleared of claims that she made. She still made a crime according the court and was still convicted of that crime. It's just that her punishment got reduced and she is now free. It's nowhere even near the similar situation. Snowden's case is basically in the same stage where Manning's case was when she leaked the documents, so somewhere around 2011. Manning pleaded guilty to the charges in court in early 2013. Snowden still didn't go through that process.

vivekd 9y ago

They were very different cases: 1. Manning thought she was doing the right thing and didn't realize what she would cause. Snowden knew exactly what he was doing. 2. Manning leaked the docs to something that is probably a Russian front but something she didn't realize was a Russian front. Snowden, if he didn't turn over the leaks to the Russian and Chinese governments, certainly put them in great risk of being turned over.