5 ms·

I remember going to the Vancouver Aquarium as a kid 20 years ago or so and watching the dolphins do tricks. These might have been rescued, but they were still

by giarc 9y ago

I remember going to the Vancouver Aquarium as a kid 20 years ago or so and watching the dolphins do tricks. These might have been rescued, but they were still trained to for entertainment. The Vancouver Aquarium isn't totally innocent.

noelwelsh 9y ago
It's pretty common to teach intelligent animals tricks when they're in zoos or similar. Otherwise they get bored. This isn't a comment on the correctness of keeping dolphins in captivity but an explanation of why if one decides to keep dolphins teaching them tricks may be an ethical thing to do.
- kobeya 9y ago
  The famous "dolphin blowing air rings" trick was invented in captivity by a bored dolphin. It was never observed in the wild until some rescue dolphins were released back.
  - pluma 9y ago
    Yes. You're agreeing with the parent. Animals are a lot less likely to get bored in the wild.
    - kobeya 9y ago
      Providing commentary yes. Just because I replied doesn't mean I'm disagreeing ;)
  - placeybordeaux 9y ago
    Thats really interesting, do you have a source?
    - kobeya 9y ago
      I learned it in an Aquarium, which unfortunately didn't provide a citation on the display.
goodcanadian 9y ago
Vancouver aquarium has not had animals doing "tricks" that were not wild behaviours for decades. As a sibling comment mentioned, the training and shows that did occur were as much about animal enrichment as they were about educating the public.
- giarc 9y ago
  I don't think "they did them in the wild" is a good excuse. The fact that they get bored and require stimulation like this says to me that perhaps a tiny habitat isn't appropriate. I'm more concerned about the tiny area they are given to live out their lives. https://img.memesuper.com/fb3647c753a84754210e7d4879042b9d_seaworld-cares-this-much-more-about-cars-than-killer-whales-seaworld-parking-lot-meme_2000-1151.jpeg https://img.memesuper.com/fb3647c753a84754210e7d4879042b9d_s...
  - goodcanadian 9y ago
    And I was objecting to your characterization of Vancouver aquarium as a place where animals are made to do tricks for our entertainment. It is a serious research institution which takes animal welfare very seriously. Keep in mind that, for the most part, these are animals that would not survive in the wild. Vancouver has banned wild caught whales and dolphins for decades. Animals in captivity are always problematic, but there are sometimes good reasons for it both from an animal welfare point of view and from a human education point of view. In the meantime, great strides have been made in improving conditions for animals in captivity, and Vancouver has been a leader in this regard.
    - drjasonharrison 9y ago
      http://www.vancouveraquariumuncovered.com/ http://www.vancouveraquariumuncovered.com/ It's a "serious research institution" with only one peer reviewed publication based on data from captured belugas. While individuals may take animal welfare very seriously, the Vancouver Aquarium has attempted to confuse their marine mammal rescue with the captivity of cetaceans. 99% of the marine mammals they rescue are baby seals that humans have interfered with while their mother was out feeding. Next, regarding "tricks" and "entertainment," many people who experienced the shows found then entertaining. http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2017/05/11/we-dont-do-shows-and-we-never-have-vancouver-aquarium-ceo.html http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2017/05/11/we-dont-do... While I will agree that the Vancouver Aquarium can be considered to "take animal welfare seriously" I also feel that their president and website disingenuously conflate mammal with cetacean, hide the sources of "wild cetacean injuries" (eg, Japanese sourced dolphins), and vastly under spend when it comes to care of their cetaceans.
pvaldes 9y ago
Millions of people goes to the gym and repeat voluntarily again and again the same movements. Moving weight is painful so, why they do this? To feel better, to brag, to fight against stress, to improve their ego or impress the opposite sex. Several social reasons to explain this strange behaviour. When dolphins jump, leap, chase and obtain some fishes and human approval as reward they are entertaining humans of course. Is this bad? well, visitors pay their food, and the pool filters that keep the water clean, and the vets... but this is not all. They are exercising also. Some people says that dolphins are sad for this. Well, It seems that nowadays everybody is the true and sacred representant of dolphin race in the earth, so I can jump to that train also. Dolphins can and probably enjoy the play, the cooperative chase and the interaction with other dolphins and humans. Why? Because exercice leads to serotonin and adrenalin and this is known to have a positive effect in the mood of a vertebrate. More serotonin released by your brain will makes you a happier dolphin or guy. Trained dolphins have also the change of keep their brain active solving problems, feel better, brag, improve their ego or impress the opposite sex. Otherwise the dolphin or seal would snooze in their pool for entire weeks without no stimulus at all and this "solution" would be the definition of animal cruelty.
ojiikun 9y ago
many of the enrichment routines are actually based around behaviours that are needed to better care for the animals. for instance, training a command to swim to a platform and breach up and present their underside? this lets veterinarian more easily perform examinations. training a jump to a particular side of a pool and staying there can let the maintenance crews work on filters after hours. modern enrichment routines have many purposes beyond entertainment, and if they can also draw paying crowds and donors, so be it for the better. a marine mammal specialist at your local aquarium can probably talk your ear off on the topic if you were to go ask about the "tricks".

by giarc 9y ago

noelwelsh 9y ago

It's pretty common to teach intelligent animals tricks when they're in zoos or similar. Otherwise they get bored. This isn't a comment on the correctness of keeping dolphins in captivity but an explanation of why if one decides to keep dolphins teaching them tricks may be an ethical thing to do.

kobeya 9y ago
The famous "dolphin blowing air rings" trick was invented in captivity by a bored dolphin. It was never observed in the wild until some rescue dolphins were released back.
- pluma 9y ago
  Yes. You're agreeing with the parent. Animals are a lot less likely to get bored in the wild.
  - kobeya 9y ago
    Providing commentary yes. Just because I replied doesn't mean I'm disagreeing ;)
- placeybordeaux 9y ago
  Thats really interesting, do you have a source?
  - kobeya 9y ago
    I learned it in an Aquarium, which unfortunately didn't provide a citation on the display.

goodcanadian 9y ago

Vancouver aquarium has not had animals doing "tricks" that were not wild behaviours for decades. As a sibling comment mentioned, the training and shows that did occur were as much about animal enrichment as they were about educating the public.

giarc 9y ago
I don't think "they did them in the wild" is a good excuse. The fact that they get bored and require stimulation like this says to me that perhaps a tiny habitat isn't appropriate. I'm more concerned about the tiny area they are given to live out their lives. https://img.memesuper.com/fb3647c753a84754210e7d4879042b9d_seaworld-cares-this-much-more-about-cars-than-killer-whales-seaworld-parking-lot-meme_2000-1151.jpeg https://img.memesuper.com/fb3647c753a84754210e7d4879042b9d_s...
- goodcanadian 9y ago
  And I was objecting to your characterization of Vancouver aquarium as a place where animals are made to do tricks for our entertainment. It is a serious research institution which takes animal welfare very seriously. Keep in mind that, for the most part, these are animals that would not survive in the wild. Vancouver has banned wild caught whales and dolphins for decades. Animals in captivity are always problematic, but there are sometimes good reasons for it both from an animal welfare point of view and from a human education point of view. In the meantime, great strides have been made in improving conditions for animals in captivity, and Vancouver has been a leader in this regard.
  - drjasonharrison 9y ago
    http://www.vancouveraquariumuncovered.com/ http://www.vancouveraquariumuncovered.com/ It's a "serious research institution" with only one peer reviewed publication based on data from captured belugas. While individuals may take animal welfare very seriously, the Vancouver Aquarium has attempted to confuse their marine mammal rescue with the captivity of cetaceans. 99% of the marine mammals they rescue are baby seals that humans have interfered with while their mother was out feeding. Next, regarding "tricks" and "entertainment," many people who experienced the shows found then entertaining. http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2017/05/11/we-dont-do-shows-and-we-never-have-vancouver-aquarium-ceo.html http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2017/05/11/we-dont-do... While I will agree that the Vancouver Aquarium can be considered to "take animal welfare seriously" I also feel that their president and website disingenuously conflate mammal with cetacean, hide the sources of "wild cetacean injuries" (eg, Japanese sourced dolphins), and vastly under spend when it comes to care of their cetaceans.

pvaldes 9y ago

Millions of people goes to the gym and repeat voluntarily again and again the same movements. Moving weight is painful so, why they do this? To feel better, to brag, to fight against stress, to improve their ego or impress the opposite sex. Several social reasons to explain this strange behaviour. When dolphins jump, leap, chase and obtain some fishes and human approval as reward they are entertaining humans of course. Is this bad? well, visitors pay their food, and the pool filters that keep the water clean, and the vets... but this is not all. They are exercising also. Some people says that dolphins are sad for this. Well, It seems that nowadays everybody is the true and sacred representant of dolphin race in the earth, so I can jump to that train also. Dolphins can and probably enjoy the play, the cooperative chase and the interaction with other dolphins and humans. Why? Because exercice leads to serotonin and adrenalin and this is known to have a positive effect in the mood of a vertebrate. More serotonin released by your brain will makes you a happier dolphin or guy. Trained dolphins have also the change of keep their brain active solving problems, feel better, brag, improve their ego or impress the opposite sex. Otherwise the dolphin or seal would snooze in their pool for entire weeks without no stimulus at all and this "solution" would be the definition of animal cruelty.

ojiikun 9y ago

many of the enrichment routines are actually based around behaviours that are needed to better care for the animals. for instance, training a command to swim to a platform and breach up and present their underside? this lets veterinarian more easily perform examinations. training a jump to a particular side of a pool and staying there can let the maintenance crews work on filters after hours. modern enrichment routines have many purposes beyond entertainment, and if they can also draw paying crowds and donors, so be it for the better. a marine mammal specialist at your local aquarium can probably talk your ear off on the topic if you were to go ask about the "tricks".